Can anyone shed some light on this Pinot Noir debate? Which Pinot Noir region, on average, can last longer in the bottle-- Oregon or California? (I understand there will be very hot and cool vintages which will skew the years in bottle.) And can someone explain to me why one region will typically last longer? Thanks!
I bet it comes down more to producer and vineyard than state. As a ratio of wines made, Oregon might have more producers who make wine in a less ripe and higher acid style but both states have producers who make wine in that manner. Ive certainly had soft and ripe Oregon Pinots.
It might be more vintage dependent in Oregon than California. Oregon Pinots seem to reflect the vintage a bit more than their California brethren.
I’ve been selling (and drinking) Pinots from both California and Oregon for 35 years and have quite a few older wines in my cellar. I can’t think of many Oregon Pinots that are better after 10-12 years while there are certainly Cali bottles that can go that distance. Calera and Mount Eden come to mind.
What Berry said. I’ve had beautiful 15 year old versions of Mt. Eden, Domaine Drouhin, St. Innocent and Calera. Slightly less than that I’ve had Arcadians that showed beautifully and were in no danger of going over the hill.
a 1968 L Martini PN last weekend didn’t suck.
But I think it is hard to generalize with 2 large wine producing states with a variety of styles.
I think it’s these old school guys that make the argument that California has more Pinot Noirs that can age. I would add Calera to this group - as well as little ol’ Pedroncelli (the '70 and '73 are still marvelous) -
Outside of the old Eyrie wines, I find that most of the new producers in Oregon are going after the riper style (ala California) and the wines tend to plateau at 8-10 years of age. that being said, I stashed quite a few 83 Pinot Noirs from Oregon and was shocked at how well they developed, and that was a big ripe vintage. The 1980 Amity Reserve is another that’s really held up well -
I think there was a “what are the AFWE producers of Oregon” thread or something like that which would be a good guide for producers to follow.
For California (and this is not an exhaustive list) ageable Pinots that come to mind are:
- Delhinger
- Joseph Swan
- Arcadian
- Clos Saron
- Calera
- Mount Eden (but I hear newer vintages might be more modern)
- Rhys
- Kutch
- Porter Creek
What they all have in common is a lesser ripe than typical (for the state) fruit profile with good tannin and acid structure. I think they all have the capacity to make old bones. Ive tasted Joseph Swans from the early 70s that were no where over the hill and still very vibrant.
What Berry said
I add Arnot-Roberts and Copain
Pre 1998 Williams Selyem Pinot aged amazingly. Maybe the 98s. I forget when Burt stopped making the wines.
I think there is less old Oregon pinot out there and things have really developed over the years. I think this is a question to be asked in 2030.
Jason
You were right, 1997 was his last vintage.
Jason, your avatar pic is going to give me nightmares. What the hell is that?
Berry- pretty sure from a great cult movie from the 70’s.
2007 Oregon v. 2010 CA would be a good match up.
Robert
2010 CA is am interesting choice. Why pick that one?
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
As the original question was phrased “on average”, I’d give the nod to Oregon. For sheer numbers and volume, there is so much more made in California over a longer period of time that one can find a greater number of Pinot Noirs that have lasted.
I like the idea of revisiting the question in 2030, and every year between now and then, as long as it involves drinking the wine.
P Hickner
I climbed the Mountain of Wisdom asked the wine guru:
“Great wine guru, which can age longer…California, or Oregon pinots?”
He replied, “California.”
I went forth from the mountain and proclaimed this to the masses, and one voice called out, “How much longer?”
I had no answer, so climbed the Mountain of Wisdom, again.
“Oh, great wine guru, I now know California pinots age longer than those from Oregon, but how much longer?”
The wise guru replied, “About 2 weeks.”
cool flick
2010 CA: Nice and cold season, though with some heat spikes to help development, thicker skins, etc.
2010 is certainly a very unique year. Highest brix ever in many areas for CA Pinot. But also high acid (due to the cold season) and high nutrients so quick ferments. I’ve never seen a year like it.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
I disagree vehemently that the younger/newer OR producers are going for a riper style, ala California. Obviously it depends on which way one leans stylistically and what one buys, but if anything OR is setting the standard for moving away from overripe new world fruit and a smaller proportion of CA producers are following suit.