Your thoughts on Morey 1er Cru's

[billnanson]

Have been buying Marchand Tawse Millandes since the '13 vintage. Just across the road from CSD. While still typical MSD darker profile, it is generally cool, elegant and earthy. I believe Pascal usually uses 25% whole cluster.
Pretty big vineyard. Lots of other producers including Magnien(M) & Arlaud.

To be clear, Arlaud and a number of other excellent producers like Roumier make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there. I believe the producers I listed are located in MSD.

Arlaud may be on the ‘other side’ of D974, but the winery is definitely in Morey St.Denis…

[Howard_Cooper]

Have been buying Marchand Tawse Millandes since the '13 vintage. Just across the road from CSD. While still typical MSD darker profile, it is generally cool, elegant and earthy. I believe Pascal usually uses 25% whole cluster.
Pretty big vineyard. Lots of other producers including Magnien(M) & Arlaud.

To be clear, Arlaud and a number of other excellent producers like Roumier make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there. I believe the producers I listed are located in MSD.

Arlaud may be on the ‘other side’ of D974, but the winery is definitely in Morey St.Denis…

I visited him in 2016 in downtown NSG (see address below). Did he move?

[billnanson]

I only ever visited them in Morey, Howard - they do have an old cellar in Nuits, which is where you must have visited, but the winemaking’s in a large and modern cuverie in Morey - may be all the winemaking there since about the 2004 vintage(?)
Photo from 2008…

[Subu_Ramachandran]

The only thought I really have on this is based on the few times I have tasted a range of Truchot’s wines together in an organized way - did this for 2000-2002 vintages. The Clos Sorbe seems to me to be pure MSD. His Ruchots tasted to me like a cross between his Clos Sorbe and his Chambolle Musigny Sentiers.

Howard, thanks for your input. If only Jacky Truchot’s wine are still within reach, sigh!

[Greg_K]

This is good discussion, helps to learn more about a village that doesn’t get enough attention, especially given the plethora of good producers. Is one right to group vineyards such as close de la bussiere, clos sorbe, Blanchard, Ruchots into linear, purer wines; and those vineyards such as clos de ormes, Faconnieres into denser, richer wines?

I suppose les chaffots, Mont Luisants are more mineral compared to those vineyards down the slope.

I guess it’s always producer specific in Burgundy. I don’t think of Clos des Ormes as denser wines based on my experience with Lignier or Marchand, for instance.

[Mark_Gough]

Have been buying Marchand Tawse Millandes since the '13 vintage. Just across the road from CSD. While still typical MSD darker profile, it is generally cool, elegant and earthy. I believe Pascal usually uses 25% whole cluster.
Pretty big vineyard. Lots of other producers including Magnien(M) & Arlaud.

To be clear, Arlaud and a number of other excellent producers like Roumier make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there. I believe the producers I listed are located in MSD.

Howard, I know & appreciate you are a big fan/supporter of MSD wines, well done you. But, and sorry for this, I’m absolutely baffled why you reckon Arlaud are not located in MSD - truly bizarre to be honest, sorry.

I’ve worked for this super family/domaine for 9 harvests (ok, what does that qualify me for ?) and visited outside the vendange on several occasions late 90’s/early noughties to 2018. They are a truly situate MSD domaine, no ifs buts or maybe’s, end of. All the references one will ever read refer to the domaine as MSD based (Coates, Jasper M, the domaine’s own website etc etc).

Yes, for reasons I know not, the original cuverie was in the backstreets of NSG & those premises are still retained - we had our end of 2018 vendange Paulee therein as I posted on Bill Nanson’s website in my vendange diary- with photos. Mayber Herve Arlaud owns those premises ? They are certainly not ‘working premises’ now, and guess would not have been in 2016. They seem trophy/investment premises to me, ideally suited for entertaining, corporate or otherwise. I visited those NSG premises when still in use which was years ago.

I can only surmise that if you were used to going there then Cyprien may have chosen to host you in NSG ? The long time (since 2004 is my firm understanding) cuverie, offices, cellars premises - purpose built - is as Bill (Nanson) refers to, below the D974 from the crossroads traffic lights.

Roumier, of course, are in Chambolle but I agree the other producers (not read back up thread) are in MSD. Back to Arlaud, one of the aspects I enjoyed working for them was the ‘spread’ of owned terroirs, in MSD 1er terms alone:- Ruchots, Blanchards (love this), Chezeaux et Millandes.

A recent topic on a UK Forum has been Bourgogne Roncevie of which Arklaud have 5 hectares - a long slog in vendange picking terms (too much of my life spent here lol !) . This is, in reality, a Gevrey Village and thus a bargain per se. Historic politics sees any outside Gevrey vigneron unable to use the Gevrey Village designation - look at the maps and in particular the proximity of Gevrey Seuvrees (which Arlaud also own vines in - fruit from here and Gevrey La Justice is the Arlaud Gevrey Village).

I now work for Domaine Michel Noellat, Vosne - but that’s another story (and, yes, they are absolutely in Vosne .

[Howard_Cooper]

Have been buying Marchand Tawse Millandes since the '13 vintage. Just across the road from CSD. While still typical MSD darker profile, it is generally cool, elegant and earthy. I believe Pascal usually uses 25% whole cluster.
Pretty big vineyard. Lots of other producers including Magnien(M) & Arlaud.

To be clear, Arlaud and a number of other excellent producers like Roumier make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there. I believe the producers I listed are located in MSD.

Howard, I know & appreciate you are a big fan/supporter of MSD wines, well done you. But, and sorry for this, I’m absolutely baffled why you reckon Arlaud are not located in MSD - truly bizarre to be honest, sorry.

I’ve worked for this super family/domaine for 9 harvests (ok, what does that qualify me for ?) and visited outside the vendange on several occasions late 90’s/early noughties to 2018. They are a truly situate MSD domaine, no ifs buts or maybe’s, end of. All the references one will ever read refer to the domaine as MSD based (Coates, Jasper M, the domaine’s own website etc etc).

Yes, for reasons I know not, the original cuverie was in the backstreets of NSG & those premises are still retained - we had our end of 2018 vendange Paulee therein as I posted on Bill Nanson’s website in my vendange diary- with photos. Mayber Herve Arlaud owns those premises ? They are certainly not ‘working premises’ now, and guess would not have been in 2016. They seem trophy/investment premises to me, ideally suited for entertaining, corporate or otherwise. I visited those NSG premises when still in use which was years ago.

I can only surmise that if you were used to going there then Cyprien may have chosen to host you in NSG ? The long time (since 2004 is my firm understanding) cuverie, offices, cellars premises - purpose built - is as Bill (Nanson) refers to, below the D974 from the crossroads traffic lights.

Roumier, of course, are in Chambolle but I agree the other producers (not read back up thread) are in MSD. Back to Arlaud, one of the aspects I enjoyed working for them was the ‘spread’ of owned terroirs, in MSD 1er terms alone:- Ruchots, Blanchards (love this), Chezeaux et Millandes.

A recent topic on a UK Forum has been Bourgogne Roncevie of which Arklaud have 5 hectares - a long slog in vendange picking terms (too much of my life spent here lol !) . This is, in reality, a Gevrey Village and thus a bargain per se. Historic politics sees any outside Gevrey vigneron unable to use the Gevrey Village designation - look at the maps and in particular the proximity of Gevrey Seuvrees (which Arlaud also own vines in - fruit from here and Gevrey La Justice is the Arlaud Gevrey Village).

I now work for Domaine Michel Noellat, Vosne - but that’s another story (and, yes, they are absolutely in Vosne .

Not terribly bizarre or weird at all. I am repeating myself but I had one visit to Arlaud and it was in NSG. I went with a close friend who knows the family very well and he also did not mention that the building we were in was not the winery. Very pretty place and Cyprien was a wonderful host and poured a number of excellent wines for us. It was in NSG. Seemed to be a large place and I have always thought it was the winery. If it wasn’t, it very nice in any case.

[Mark_Gough]

To be clear, Arlaud and a number of other excellent producers like Roumier make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there. I believe the producers I listed are located in MSD.

Howard, I know & appreciate you are a big fan/supporter of MSD wines, well done you. But, and sorry for this, I’m absolutely baffled why you reckon Arlaud are not located in MSD - truly bizarre to be honest, sorry.

I’ve worked for this super family/domaine for 9 harvests (ok, what does that qualify me for ?) and visited outside the vendange on several occasions late 90’s/early noughties to 2018. They are a truly situate MSD domaine, no ifs buts or maybe’s, end of. All the references one will ever read refer to the domaine as MSD based (Coates, Jasper M, the domaine’s own website etc etc).

Yes, for reasons I know not, the original cuverie was in the backstreets of NSG & those premises are still retained - we had our end of 2018 vendange Paulee therein as I posted on Bill Nanson’s website in my vendange diary- with photos. Mayber Herve Arlaud owns those premises ? They are certainly not ‘working premises’ now, and guess would not have been in 2016. They seem trophy/investment premises to me, ideally suited for entertaining, corporate or otherwise. I visited those NSG premises when still in use which was years ago.

I can only surmise that if you were used to going there then Cyprien may have chosen to host you in NSG ? The long time (since 2004 is my firm understanding) cuverie, offices, cellars premises - purpose built - is as Bill (Nanson) refers to, below the D974 from the crossroads traffic lights.

Roumier, of course, are in Chambolle but I agree the other producers (not read back up thread) are in MSD. Back to Arlaud, one of the aspects I enjoyed working for them was the ‘spread’ of owned terroirs, in MSD 1er terms alone:- Ruchots, Blanchards (love this), Chezeaux et Millandes.

A recent topic on a UK Forum has been Bourgogne Roncevie of which Arklaud have 5 hectares - a long slog in vendange picking terms (too much of my life spent here lol !) . This is, in reality, a Gevrey Village and thus a bargain per se. Historic politics sees any outside Gevrey vigneron unable to use the Gevrey Village designation - look at the maps and in particular the proximity of Gevrey Seuvrees (which Arlaud also own vines in - fruit from here and Gevrey La Justice is the Arlaud Gevrey Village).

I now work for Domaine Michel Noellat, Vosne - but that’s another story (and, yes, they are absolutely in Vosne .

I am repeating myself but I had one visit to Arlaud and it was in NSG.

At risk of my repeating myself you did say, which I was referring to, “Arlaud specifically, make wines from MSD vineyards but are not located there” ? I acknowledged, readily, the existence of the NSG premises and that you were hosted there BUT Arlaud are an MSD based/located domaine

[Howard_Cooper]

Are you now just babbling or what?

[Mark_Gough]

Oh come on Howard, are you always so petulant when incorrect ? Pathetic.

[Howard_Cooper]

Oh come on Howard, are you always so petulant when incorrect ? Pathetic.

I have explained my knowledge now in two separate posts. If that is not enough for you, I don’t care. Bill explained to me that the winery was someplace other than what I thought and I accepted this and was happy to learn more. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish now by saying the same thing that was resolved multiple times and asking me to repeat myself multiple times. What exact points have you made that were not made by Bill or me earlier in the conversation other than to call me bizarre?

[Mark_Gough]

Oh come on Howard, are you always so petulant when incorrect ? Pathetic.

I have explained my knowledge now in two separate posts. If that is not enough for you, I don’t care. Bill explained to me that the winery was someplace other than what I thought and I accepted this and was happy to learn more. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish now by saying the same thing that was resolved multiple times and asking me to repeat myself multiple times. What exact points have you made that were not made by Bill or me earlier in the conversation other than to call me bizarre?

Good night Howard (UK time) enjoy your next visit to Arlaud whenever - be it in NSG or Morey.

[Howard_Cooper]

The only thought I really have on this is based on the few times I have tasted a range of Truchot’s wines together in an organized way - did this for 2000-2002 vintages. The Clos Sorbe seems to me to be pure MSD. His Ruchots tasted to me like a cross between his Clos Sorbe and his Chambolle Musigny Sentiers.

Howard, thanks for your input. If only Jacky Truchot’s wine are still within reach, sigh!

Even though I have a number of his wines and it would mean the wines I have would be much less valuable, I very much wish the prices had never appreciated so I could be buying more.