True that if someone does not order wine the server may not need to work as hard, but if they literally work 95% as hard for 50% to 60% of the check average that just sucks (but also the reality of being a server). I don’t worry about the other patrons, just me and the service I receive. And I should add, if I receive shitty service, I don’t feel obligated to leave a good tip regardless of whether or not I BYOB.
$25 used to be the most a restaurant could charge for corkage under DC regs - but that rule got removed when DC explicitly made it legal for individuals to receive wine shipments (previously, permission wasn’t expressly granted, but any law against wasn’t enforced).
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Wil,
I’m pretty sure you didn’t read my post or read it the way I meant it to come across.
Lettie is talking about tipping on a fictional btl of wine in a NJ restaurant that doesn’t have a liquor license and couldn’t sell you a bottle if they wanted to. So yeah…to me…it’s a dumb virtue signaling paragraph.
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I know this is a broader issue, but can we all agree that cities and states have zero actual reason to pass laws about corkage?
There is no bona fide regulatory or public interest reason for a state to say “restaurants cannot allow BYO,” “the most a restaurant can change for corkage is $X,” or pretty much anything else related to BYO and corkage.
I know there are the shadowy forces of distributors, conglomerates, three-tier whatever entities, and so forth. But there are no earnest reasons why any government should regulate that. Let restaurants decide what is good for their business and act accordingly.
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Alcohol is regulated. Of course states or townships will regulate it and corkage.
One example, in NJ dry towns may, or may not allow, alcohol to be consumed in restaurants; not sold, consumed meaning NO BYOB.
I think BYOB is also restricted to wine or beer if allowed in the muni and by the operator.
Of course governments have the right to regulate things related to alcohole. And of course if it’s a dry city or county, then obviously that could include BYO.
My question is whether there is any bona fide justification for a state like Colorado, Texas or Ohio to have a law saying restaurants can sell wine but BYO wine is prohibited. I say no.
Of course they literally can do it and in fact do do it. I’m just talking about the idea and principle of it.
As the state, How do you enforce overconsumption of alcohol if the restaurant allows BYOB but is unlicensed?
I think the more interesting thing is with alcohol consumption falling is that restaurants aren’t going to be able to rely on alcohol as heavily for profit.
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New Jersey doesn’t seem to have a problem with this.
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It circumvents taxes as well, the on premise operator pays special alcohol related taxes on all items bought and sold, corkage circumvents that.
I guess I disagree with the premise that it is 'Virtue Signaling." I don’t think they are being disingenuous and just looking for a pat on the back. I think they are genuinely surprised that more people aren’t aware of the fact that you should tip on a bottle you bring - liquor license aside. 
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I honestly can’t tell if you’re messing with me. Do you live in NJ? Nobody does what you’re saying. Not a soul. Other than Lettie (and now apparently a few of her friends).
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Michael Dolinski, wine director of Portale restaurant in New York, has an equally impressive wine list and a corkage fee that he calls “reasonable” and will share with customers who call to discuss bringing a bottle. The fee does not appear on the Portale wine list or website—a deliberate omission, Dolinski said. “Our business is to sell food and wine,” he explained, adding that 30-35% of the restaurant’s business is in beverage sales, with an average wine sale of $120 a bottle. He likened the act of bringing wine to a restaurant to bringing one’s own steak.
Then why allow corkage at all? I asked. Portale’s corkage policy is in place for diners who bring their own bottles for “a legitimate good reason,” Dolinski replied. He offered the example of a couple who have been saving a bottle of 1982 Château Mouton Rothschild for their anniversary and want to drink it with the chef’s food: “I’m not trying to punish the person who’s doing it right.” Like Hon, Dolinski wouldn’t bring his own wine to a restaurant with a wine list, out of respect for a peer.
This is a sadly common attitude and frankly among the most obnoxious attitudes for a restaurant to have.
The steak canard has been beaten to death. For one thing, there are actually a ton of restaurants I’d love to supply an ingredient to and see what the chef can make out of it. But set that aside. Restaurants cook food. You are paying for their cooking. The chef does not make the wine. They are just a reseller. So, no, bringing a wine is not like bringing a steak.
The notion that only special occasion bottles count as “doing it right” is even worse. If you are a wine professional, you should want to promote wine as part of the fabric of everyday life, not a special occasion event. And “doing it right” is a two-way street. If you have a list that would make me prefer the inconvenience of BYO to ordering off the list, then you are not doing it right as a wine director or as a restaurant.
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It’s the Seattle perspective.
It may have changed in Philadelphia/SNJ but I only remember a few BYOB places that had a fee for wine glasses. In Pittsburgh, there is usually a charge of a few bucks a glass or so.
How much do people tip if they bring their own soy sauce?
I wouldn’t say Seattle perspective. It’s perspective from 10 years in the service industry working in high end restaurants in both Seattle and New York. @Mike_Cohen - definitely not messing with you. It’s fair to say that I am in no way familiar with NJ dining culture, but in the high end restaurants where I have worked this is how it’s viewed.
Not many high end BYOB restaurants that I’ve been to.
A server would never tell you to your face that they hoped you would leave a little extra tip. It’s just a courteous thing to do if you bring a bottle and enjoyed good service. It’s appreciated. In many places wait staff are paid significantly below minimum wage because of the expectation that they make tips. When I wrapped up my restaurant career and left NYC in 2014 my hourly wage was $2.13 an hour - I lived solely on tips.
BYO places in NJ can’t charge a fee. I know some used to do it, but that was shut down. Not sure if it never was allowed in the 1st place and some just ignorantly did it, or if there was a law change. BYO places in the past were not allowed to advertise BYO. That has changed and it is allowed to be in print, on websites, etc.
This thread is proof that all one needs to do is mention corkage, and a huge debate will start. When it comes to corkage, no one seems to agree on much of anything. And no one is about to change their mind.
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That’s the whole idea of a $2.13 minimum ( for 2025 in NYC it’s $11 and $5.50 per hr in tip credit, i.e. minimum wage of $16.50). No one works hoping to make $16.50 an hour.
A wise person once said in one of these threads that you have to look at the overall $$ in pocket over a longer period of time. Fretting over each individual check and doing a mental calculation of what the tip was verses what the server thought it should be will just drive you nuts. Some will be generous, some will be cheap, most will be in the middle. If you earned an overall fair wage, be happy. If not, move to another restaurant or change professions.
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