Wondering about Charvin

Warren_Taranow · November 5, 2018, 5:34am

Charvin has been one of my favorite CdP producers for almost two decades, despite having dramatically decreased my Southern Rhone holdings. Grenache heavy blend, organic farming, whole cluster, clean vinification in concrete tanks, and reasonable extraction and alcohol levels, even in warm vintages (Laurent made the only CdP I liked in 2003; I haven’t tried the 2007, but imagine it’s balanced). My '01s are in a really good place right now.

Cheers,
Warren

brodie_thomson · November 5, 2018, 9:50pm

Warren has captured my views perfectly. I have recently enjoyed bottles of 2001, 2003 and 2004. All drinking really well, even the 2003 was delicious if a bit ripe.

For me Charvin CNDP starts to hit the sweet spot for me at 12-15 years from vintage

Brodie

Gerhard_P · November 6, 2018, 11:16am

Definitely past 2030 … I had 1998-2001 (see above #11) and while the 2001 was on the youthful side, all others were drinking perfectly and no hurry for another 5-10 years …

Jonathan_Loesberg · November 6, 2018, 2:32pm

I will probably try the 12 again in 2020, as Charvin’s have usually come out of their closed period by eight years old. I agree with those who predict a long life for his wine (I had the 90 a month or so ago, and it is singing all the parts in the last act of Traviata). But the wines frequently show well earlier. Both the 01 and the 05, both of which have lives ahead of them, showed as young and vibrant as early as seven or eight years after vintage. The 04 and the 06 were drinking well even at age 5, although, again, both of them have years ahead of them. I don’t know about thge 07. Like the Pegau, it is still clumsy and desultory. It may come around, but I am having real doubts about even the best wines from that vintage.

Arv_R · August 24, 2019, 9:07pm

I haven’t had the 12 Charvin CdP since it came out and I bought my yearly allotment. I usually try to keep my hands off them until they are between 8 and 10, as that it when I find them at their best, though I make exceptions for vintages like 08, 11 (both drinking very well now), 13, and 14. It is well within the realm of possibility that, as some of the posters above have said, it is in a closed period. Even Charvin CdRs have these with some regularity. But your tasting note doesn’t sound like it. When they are closed,Charvin’s wines, both CdRs and CdPs, taste mutedly and harshly tannic (as might be expected). They do not taste porty, however. Indeed, that is an odd note for Charvin, who, while he certainly makes powerful wines in solar years, pointedly does not seek surmaturité. If by porty, you mean roasted and/or stewed, then maybe the wine you had was heat damaged. if you mean alcoholic without much fruit, then the wine is probably closed. It’s also possible that my balanced, minerally and intellectually interesting CdP is your porty blockbuster. These things happen and you may do well to avoid Charvin (and all CdP) in years that are critical darlings.

If Charvin’s CdR didn’t taste so much like a northern vineyard CdP, it would be easier to avoid comparing them. And one should avoid it. They are different wines with different strengths. The CdRs can age surprisingly well and I try to avoid not drinking mine up until they are around 10-12. But they don’t age like the CdPs (Charvin’s 90s are still drinking beautifully). Tasting a CdR blind, I have confused it with a CdP. Given one of each, I can generally identify which is which, thougn.

So I popped my last 07 Charvin CdR last night, and it actually did taste a touch porty/surmaturite for the first couple of hours. It might have been a touch too warm, as I had it poolside. Another glass at lunch today, after chilling/air, was much more balanced and enjoyable. I think you have a good point on how much they taste like CNDP.

Sadly, I was not able to enjoy my 07 so Rho with sushi, the traditional pairing of the cognoscenti.

Arv_R · September 11, 2021, 4:33am

Well, it turned out that wasn’t the last of the 07 Charvin [Cotes du Rhone] as another bottle was found in a box where it wasn’t supposed to be. Enjoyable, but getting tired, and there is plenty of cloudy sediment, both in glass and caked on to the sides of the bottle.

On the plus side, if one enjoys complexity, this has developed a little, but it tends to be figgy/porty. It has kept well for a wine that doesn’t get any oak elevage. I think this bottling shows best between ages 5-10; the following might surprise the board – its both my favorite CdR and an estate where I don’t automatically prefer the big brother CNDP to the CdR.

David_Bu3ker · September 11, 2021, 2:40pm

I do like the Charvin Cotes du Rhône. Just bought a bunch. Good value and decent mid-term ageability.

Jeff_Leve · September 11, 2021, 3:29pm

I really like Charvin. 12 is not a super ripe, piety vintage and more importantly, Charvin does not seek those characteristics. Plus, I find 12 to be an early drinking vintage that is ready to go now.

My note for 12 Charvin Learn about Domaine Charvin Chateauneuf du Pape, Complete Guide

Jonathan_Loesberg · September 12, 2021, 6:58am

I agree that the 2012 is not a solar vintage and does show a lot of structure. I do not agree that it is early drinking. I really think it is just starting to show well now. But I frequently find that Jeff likes his CdP way younger than I do.

The last 07 CdR I had–a year ago–was showing well though it was not likely to last much longer. But I do not think most of the 07 CdPs are aging very well either. I was less high than Parker about this vintage, though not as critical as others on the board for maybe the first 10 years. I am coming around to the more critical view. Those that were not overripe at the outset have turned out pretty clumsy to this point.