#WineShouldBeEasierThanBeer

Lots of long-running debates about this. You can check the archives.

Specialists like the people on this forum often prefer grouping wine lists/wine stores by region/village and producer, because that suits our knowledge.

Sommeliers and retailers have been experimenting with a range of other ‘looser’ categorizations for the general public, many of which are too subjective for people like us, but they might work for other crowds.

No one right answer.

2 Likes

Well the old maxim is that the more complex the wine, the simpler the food prep.

But, not sure that I would classify Burgundy as complex. Obviously the best grand crus are complex, but within every wine region/gastronomic culture you have a range of wines-dishes from simple to complex.

2 Likes

wine consumption is social. what those around you (in person or online) drink has an influence on what you try and even like. look at the ‘matthew effect’ and how people rank music when it is known how many times a song has been downloaded. also how does a recommendation engine simplify the wine journey (if you are actually trying to learn about wine itself)? how do you distinguish an accurate prediction of taste from a behavioral nudge?

1 Like

Hi Jayy - Small question/comment for you on page 3 of the survey talking about Aroma’s …should the first question read primary aromas instead of secondary aromas? The question below also says secondary aromas and the one below that says tertiary aromas…

Thanks and Survey complete

1 Like

Hi Marcus,
Thank you so much for your encouragement. I added a descriptor for the bubble tea section “Or beverages that you can add sweetness based on your preference” per your feedback. Just to your feedback on 0, there is a slight problem of computing zeroes (at least to our limited abilities) that is why it’s on a scale of 1-7. Thank you altogether for your feedback!! :star_struck:

1 Like

Hi Lou,
I understand the confusion and I edited the questions above so it indicates, ‘Primary Nose-Palate.’ Thank you for pointing this out.

One problem with the first question that you refer to reading ‘primary’ (herbal, herbaceous, and more… ) is that despite herbal and herbaceous, often being classified as a primary aroma, sometimes it is a complementary aroma that co-exists with more dominant primary aromas… so that’s why it’s serving as a secondary aroma in this survey. Thank you for pointing it out. I changed the other questions so that readability and clarity is increased.

Thank you for your awesome participation this means a lot to me!

1 Like

I will dig through the archives of wineberserker later today (it is vast and deep). Also, per your comment on how people prefer grouping is a core question I have and am aiming to pursue. At the end of the day, the way that we group wines are hundreds of years old. Maybe it’s ripe for discussion to think of what method of grouping is a good intersection of tradition, efficiency, and accessibility. Of course, that is for a completely different thread. Still, these are all scrumptious food for thought that I wish to discuss further with you in the future! Thank you Rahsaan!

hi m_rsitev – I looked up the Matthew effect in music. I find the application of the Matthew Effect in music quite intriguing, especially considering how download numbers can influence perceptions of quality. I agree that this effect plays a significant role in wine appreciation among perhaps more social wine drinkers, where social dynamics can deeply influence opinions. However, I believe that the commitment factor in wine e.g.) alcohol content and price makes it slightly different from music streaming or downloading.

For instance, even if a Master of Wine praises Caymus as the best Cabernet Sauvignon, I would say NO if doesn’t suit my taste, as is actually the case – I don’t particularly enjoy Caymus (sorry if anybody really loves this bottle). This brings to light a nuanced point: understanding personal preferences plays a crucial role in how susceptible we are to the Matthew Effect. Just as a dedicated metal music fan may not sway toward a mellow ballad, no matter how popular, a wine enthusiast with a well-defined palate is less likely to be influenced by popular opinion.

This leads me to think that many of us, especially in the early stages of our wine journeys, might have been swayed to appreciate certain wines more due to this effect. Distinguishing between an accurate prediction of taste and mere behavioral influence remains a significant challenge, but I believe that truly understanding one’s own wine preferences is important and makes learning about wine easier. E.g.) you can start with the wine you’re MORE likely to like and then trying things out of your comfort zone one at a time.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

i guess i do not see having a defined preference as a necessary prerequisite to understanding. plenty of consumers claim to ‘know what they like’ even if they have no idea how to properly taste and evaluate a wine for its immediate qualities related to how or where it was produced. tastes can also change and evolve; it is not uncommon to start out collecting from napa mailing lists and somehow wind up going all in on burgundy. in this scenario, did their food preferences or eating habits also change? did their technical knowledge about wine making become more sophisticated? or what about new friends? furthermore, just because an algorithm recommends a wine and someone purchases it and claims they enjoy it does not mean that person will also be inclined to continue down the rabbit hole. not all beer consumers are beer geeks. as you point out price point and alcohol volume are huge factors. for those reasons beer, seltzer, cocktails, etc usually win out over wine as opposed to some ambiguous intimidation factor. i think what makes learning about wine (or anything for that matter) easier is the desire and motivation to learn. maybe the right wine could spark that desire but it seems awfully difficult to predict, especially if you believe in the notion that there are no great wines just great bottles. i would be curious to hear what kind of methodology you plan to use to construct your model from the data…

Funny enough just this morning I was part of a group helping a wine research specialist look for a vocabulary specific to Chehalem Mountain wines, and he said exactly the same thing about zeroes.

Hi Marcus! What an interesting coincidence. I would love to hear more about what the talk was about. Also, it would be amazing if you could give us some guidance on how to steer this project down the road!

1 Like

Hi!
I definitely agree with a lot of the discussion here. Especially your part about how we start with Napa and some go to Bourgogne is quite true for a lot of people. However, the question is what is TRULY your preference? If you like bitter foods are you inclined to like bitter wines? We’re trying to answer questions like that. I also agree that definitely desire and motivate to learn is important… but it may be stronger if the starting point is easier? After some initial data collection is done, I would love to discuss with you about the methodology and data. Any feedback and help is appreciated!

Interesting Idea.
But I think this survey is too limited to capture a general wine-preference around the globe. No matter how hard you try to gain responses, I predict it will be difficult to gain any insightful results.

1 Like

Hi Min,
Thank you so much for your feedback. It is definitely challenging to capture the general wine-preference around the world. However, we’re already seeing a lot of interesting results!!! There are a lot of interesting correlations we’re seeing. Thank you for your feedback though, I’m also interested to see if countries have different wine tastes! One more thing, a lot of people here are giving us so much advice feel like we’re gaining more and more insight!

Please share 1!

Exactly - it’s early but if there are already noticeable correlations, it’d be nice to see . . . especially the correlation with how you drink your coffee . . . :upside_down_face:

Hi Shan_A,
Message well received and would love to post it as soon as possible. However, I still do want to collect a little bit more data to see the significance. I am eager to share the findings with this community and to those that have further curiosities, I will personally follow up via PM to explain in further details.

@larry_schaffer @Shan_A
Sorry to keep you both waiting! I wanted to wait until I got some more datapoints. We’re still in the process of taking more data points and some results I want to wait. However, I will tell you that people that enjoy coffee black enjoy lemon or lime – with a moderate correlation. And also that those who can focus on books may enjoy spices! (Please excuse some level of ambiguity as we have some potential respondents in this thread/forum) I will update the entire post with some more scientific accuracy once we get more data. Still too small of a dataset to make statements. We’re also looking at different forums and not sure where to collect more data. However, we’re currently planning to translate the survey and post in different forums in different countries. Thank you for your participation and your patience. I will follow up with you both with more interesting findings when we have more conclusive information!