Wines that improve with DAYS of air - what's the chemistry?

WINE TALK
21

This discussion has taken place a dozen times on this board in the last 12 months or so. From all the posts, the following seem to be recurring themes:

  1. Large consensus that red wines fall apart over a few days, with limited extension if vacuvin or argon/nitro is used
  2. White wines in the fridge seem to last a bit longer (since the cold temperature greatly reduces the rate of oxidation and decay)
  3. Fortified and high res-sugar wines last the longest
  4. Most people think it’s bullshit that an unfortified wine improves with 3+ days of air.

Also, great articles by Matt Kramer or someone at Wine Spectator about the worthlessness of a Vacuvin, how quickly the seal fails, and how consumers are duped by the pop sound of a partial seal. There is also a great article somewhere on there about how putting wine in the fridge really is your best bet, since at 37 degrees or so you have an enormously reduced amount of molecular activity, which decreases your rate of oxidation by some huge percentage when compared to a corked bottle on the counter. From reading some AWRI articles, I’d also think that high sulfur content would help fight off rapid oxidation, but unless it’s in the fridge, I think you’re in a losing battle. The amount of O2 in the head space of an open bottle of wine with a glass poured out would seem to quickly overwhelm any free sulfur. Then again, I’m a lawyer, not a chemist, and I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

22

Yipes. Well, they’re only $8 - $12, last for several years and it’s an easy Xmas list item. How many Ah-so’s, foil cutters, pouring spouts, openers and screwpulls does a geek need? The popping noise is reassuring.

Every one of our open bottle overnights in the fridge anyway and it only needs to stay good for 24 - 48 hours. It’s a rare (or problematic) bottle that lasts longer.

RT

23

I don’t think he made this point, it was that it was still very drinkable days afterward [and not refrigerated either].

24

FWIW, I never leave such wines in the refrigerator. One reason is that it takes too long to get them to a temperature to taste them. Though I can’t dispute it, I’m not convinced it does anything meaningful.

25

Sugar is an excellent antioxidant, so sweet wines are a special case. It probably wasn’t oxidation of unappealing elements; just evaporation (blowing off) or some kind of breakdown. Auslesen and higher can last months in the refrigerator and still retain a lot of their flavor.

As for other wines, certainly many young reds can be better on day two, at least if they are refrigerated, particularly if they’re tough, tannic young ones. Leaving a 10-year-old Burgundy at room temperature for 24 hours is a different story. Few reds of that age will not show some signs of oxidation after that much time, particularly those that are made a bit rustically.

26

I just remember how incredibly different they were
Maybe we can repeat the experiment when we drink the Grand Rue [wink.gif]

27

How can you knock it if you haven’t tried it!? Moreover, I think the chemistry is pretty simple: The chilling slows all the chemical reactions as well as volatilization and evaporation. There may be something, too, about bring the wine back to room temperature that brings out the aromas (which are a big part of flavor), though that’s speculation. (Think about a good Scotch on the rocks and the magnificent opening up of the smells as the ice melts.)

28

Fair enough … and, O.K.! [grin.gif] [training.gif]

29

Any wine that is heavily reduced should improve with air. 20 year old Z-Hs are good examples. But older red wines seem not to do well over night. Younger reds often go back in my wine fridge for a night or two, and they generally don’t deteriorate, but I’d never leave a wine out on the counter. The chemistry of oxidation and all other reactions go up with temperature. Check it out for yourself.

30

I just finished off a Dr. Loosen 2008 Riesling Spatlese myself and found exactly the same thing: it just got better and better every single day. While I would agree that high sugar does act as an antioxidant, it is not always a guarantee as I have had an icewine that eventually oxidized over the course of 6 days. I’ve also found reciotos to be much better as the days go on.

31

Oxidation.

32

I’ve tried it lots and lots of times…and I end up with a wine that takes forever to be tastable/showing much. Risk vs. benefit…is my view. I’ve never thought it was worth the effort.

33

“Oxidation”, which helps a wine mature/reveal itself…and “oxidized” are two related, but very different things, IMO. Of course, as always, things depend on one’s criteria…especially for “old” and “new” red wines. Though I think the risk of an older red becoming oxidized is greater than a young wine…I don’t think I’ve experienced that effect much at all over the years…despite the myths and categorical statements here.

34

For the record, I’m a huge fan of following bottles for a week or more.

Some wines just need days and days to begin to hit their stride.

And it’s especially true as you move away from mainstream Vitis vinifera, and into oddball vinifera [like Poulsard], and then away from vinifera altogether, and into e.g. native North American [u]Vitis[/u].

35

I’m in the “seldom improves with extended air” camp, and also in the “sweet rielsing being the notable exception” camp (or subcamp maybe).

36

Can you be more specific? Which ones improve, in your experience?

37

Just had the rest of a bottle of Trimbach Pinot Blanc 2007 that had been in the fridge 3 days, under vacuvin, but the bottle was only about 20% full, so there was lots of air. I noticed no change at all (incidentally, it’s a very nice wine, see my note in the Pinot Blanc thread).

38

Have you ever tried a young Jacques Puffeney Poulsard “M” from a particularly big vintage?

Those bad boys can take up to 72 hours to come around.

And almost any young Bordeaux varietal [Cabernet, Petit Verdot, Malbec], from pretty much anywhere in the world, will ALWAYS taste better on the second day.

Dittoes for young Shiraz [from Australia].

In fact, if a young Bordeaux varietal or a young Shiraz did NOT taste better on the second day [and especially if it had already started to fall apart], then I would take that to be a very, very bad sign.

[Proviso: I can’t recall having much experience with any pure Merlot - you just don’t see much pure Merlot anywhere - and I have very limited experience with Northern Rhone Syrah, simply because the stuff is so dadgum expensive.

Also: These comments apply to YOUNG wines, not aged wines.]

39

thank you Nathan, that’s interesting.