I’ll start by saying I’ve bought quite a few bottles from winebid in the past few months and am very happy with their service. The descriptions of bottle conditions have been excellent (except once, but they took care of that for me promptly and with absolutely no hassle to me – mistakes happen) and I am very happy with their customer service. I didn’t want the subject of this thread to sound negative because the message is not, and I am talking specifically about winebid because I have never bought from another online auction. I am in no way implying that this issue is unique to them. I have, however, encountered a few bottles from winebid from which so much wine has seeped out that I think they were probably heat damaged. Sometimes I have trouble telling the difference between a wine that is cooked and oxidized and a wine that is just oxidized, but these wines were undrinkable. I think the bottles were probably cleaned to remove signs of this seepage as it was not visible until I removed the capsules. Therefore, winebid’s condition descriptions were accurate. It seems to me that it’s possible (I think probable) that some less than honest people have consigned bottles that they knew were probably bad. I in no way fault winebid for this problem, but I would like to help them to avoid it. They have told me that they keep records of complaints. I am sure if they have someone consigning them a bunch of cooked or otherwise faulty wine it will be easy to tell if we let them know. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this issue and, if so, whether or not you reported it to winebid. I would urge anyone who does see this kind of thing to report it to them so we can weed out anyone who might be intentionally selling bad wine.
I obviously do not know for sure if anything underhanded is happening, but I have my suspicions. Again, winebid has been great to me and I will continue to support them. Thanks for reading.
What did you buy that you had issues with? I tend not to buy things without full bottle shots. Also, on older white, I usually buy 1, take delivery, inspect and then order more if they are still there and I’m satisfied with the condition.
Sorry to hear about the bad bottles. I’m still batting 1.000 with them, but know that a bad bottle or two is in my future.
so far so good with me as well. But the law of averages will catch up with me sooner or later. I would think that if someone intentionally sold cooked wine they would get the boot.
Had bad luck buying older bottles from them (maybe a 40% rate of cooked or otherwise undrinkable), so I’ve stopped. They have no way of verifying what sellers tell them aside from the physical condition of the bottle (which tells you jack shit, really, unless the seller was stupid enough to cook the bottles badly enough that the cork pushed out or the wine seeped everywhere - in which case they use WineCommune instead).
Recently, I had an awful 1997 Tardieu-Laurent Hermitage. The bottle looked fine until I removed the capsule. Under the capsule was such a mess that I’d be really surprised if someone hadn’t cleaned off the bottle before sending it to winebid. The fill level looked pretty good, but there was a stain of dried wine covering the entire underside of the capsule. There was no way of knowing without removing the capsule. I’ve seen this before, but I wasn’t keeping track and don’t remember what the wines were.
This is simply the risk of buying at auction. It’s certainly nothing unique to winebid. When we see attractive prices at auctions, I’m sure this uncertainty about provenance is part of the equation. I’ve bought from Winebid since 2000 and had a few duds, but nothing more than I’d expect from any source, particularly given the pricing I’ve gotten. Auction houses can do only so much to guarantee provenance. Winebid I think does a terrific job. Of course, unscrupulous people out there consign cooked wine. For me, if the price is right, I’ll take a shot. So far, success has far, far outweighed failure.
I’ve had good luck with Winebid and know a few of the people that work. As is my understanding, when bringing on a new consignor, they often taste random bottles and do in fact track complaints. If a certain consignor has a high rate of bad wine and/or complaints, I believe they stop accepting their wines.
I buy a lot of wine from winebid, and only a small proportion of it has shown heat damage. In one case I did call to alert winebid because I suspected some of them came from the same consignor, and they were extremely appreciative of the feedback and made a note of it.
I’ve bought quite a bit from WineBid. Anything older than, say, 10 years, I won’t pay more than $25 - $30 for. So, basically I don’t buy any serious older wine from them. I don’t think I’ve ever had a problem with a younger wine being obviously damaged. If I did, I would certainly report it.
i pick up my bottles from their Napa outlet and check each one, particularly the capsules. every time i have had any question they took the bottle back immediately and refunded my account completely.
i know they never labeled your bottles as “signs of seepage” but that bottle descriptor = immediate pass for me.
my most interesting winebid ‘phenomenon’ has been checking on older bottle lots purchased all @ once. some bottles oxidized, some dreary, some just awesome!!! the old adage that there is no such thing as a great old wines, just great old bottles seems so true every time i remember it.
I understand that seepage doesn’t necessarily mean bad wine, but in this case (and a couple of others) it did. I have gotten a couple of bottles from winebid that had seeped a little (not visible outside the capsule) and drank quite well. I even had a riesling recently that looked like it seeped quite a bit and tasted extremely fresh, definitely not oxidized to the taste.
I also understand that bottle variation exists as wines get older and that I’ll never have every bottle be good. I also think winebid does a great job and I’m not blaming them in any way. I am just trying to make sure they hear about these instances in case they are common with certain consignors because, as has been mentioned, they do keep track.
The point is well taken as it relates to all auction houses and wine merchants, let them know about any problems you encounter, if anything, as a FYI. An honest and ethical merchant wants this feedback and may be important to isolate a potential problem or seller. Sampling, seller history, and cellar visits are all helpful and necessary for a serious wine merchant or auction house.
What I find far more common in the auction world is inaccurately describing lots, the biggest area is in describing labels accurately. Just one of many examples, remember buying a case of 1992 Dalla Valle Maya in OWC from an action house (not winebid), described as excellent condition, well respected seller, wine purchased on release, etc. Received it and it looked like it was seriously run through a meat grinder, basically six bottles that where accumulated and put in a box and called an OWC. The label condition clearly does not impact the wine taste and does not matter to everyone, just expect an accurate description in order to bid accordingly.
I have had good luck and bad luck with winebid. If the bottle looks good, there is no way to vet whether it is cooked or not. If a seller contends that the wine has been stored at perfect cellar temp, there is no way to prove them wrong. There are good, honest sellers, and there are unscrupulous bastards…
I think this is less about winebid and unfair to single them out… just a good reminder to caveat emptor in the secondary markets.
But since you brought up winebid… I think their hammer pricing and shipping costs are way too high.
I have bought a few bottles via winebid years ago, but then stopped because I found using winecommune , I got better deals and dealt directly with the owners of the wine. I never got screwed , but had two bottles of Groth Reserve 97 that had been corked. I haven’t bought on winecommune in a while.
For the last few years, I have bought extensively from Acker Morral and Condit auctions in NYC and have had tremendously good luck. Including that 86 Margaux that you and I had Serge.
I have had a total of three bottles of wine that were bad in my entire wine drinking “career” , two of which came via auction. I consider myself lucky and when the opportunity presents itself, I will definitely buy on auction at Morrel’s again.
I am only talking about winebid because that’s the only auction service I have used. I have tried to be clear (maybe not enough) that they have done me no wrong as far as I am concerned. I in no way blame them for the incidents I’m talking about. They have been nothing but good to me. That’s why I will continue to buy from them. The issue is that early on I (foolishly) didn’t let them know when there was evidence that might have implied the possibility of one of their consignors intentionally misleading them and me about the condition of a bottle. The point of my post was to encourage others to help them weed out any possible troublemakers and make our buying experiences better. I applaud winebid for making clear to me that they share my concern in this matter and for their excellent customer service.
I agree with you statement about being wary of purchases made in secondary markets. I am not upset about bad bottles in general, only when I feel someone might have known they were bad (consignors, not winebid) and sold them anyway.
I hope I haven’t sounded confrontational. I am trying to make sure people understand that I am not faulting winebid. I have no problem with them.
Thanks for the tip. Like you I’m very happy with winebid but I had never thought to notify them of wines that were obviously heat damaged somewhere along the way to help them screen sellers. I’ll try to remember to do so from now on.
Doug, I think the thread title might be the real issue here. If it was “Auctions: please read if you buy from them” there wouldn’t be any implication of Winebid specifically, or a potential issue about Winebid. But no big deal really, just thinking out loud.
I’ve bought a number of 1987 (my wedding year) Cabernet from WineBid. There are still a number I haven’t opened yet, but I’ve had excellent results with the ones I have. The only ones that haven’t been good were a few that I took a flyer on because they were cheap, and they were either lesser or unknown producers that you wouldn’t necessarily expect to age, or they had a warning in the description (corroded or oxidized capsules). But the following have all been excellent:
Beringer Private Reserve
Shafer Stag’s Leap
Mondavi Napa Valley (yes, just the regular Napa Valley bottling - drank very well)
Clos du Val Reserve
Spring Mountain
Forman
Etude
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