Howard, how so? I’m pretty sure overall wine markups (percentage) at restaurants have not significantly changed over the past decade. The $$ has increased but primarily due to the cost of wine increasing.
I blame American fondness for sweetened breakfast cereals, fast food loaded with sugar, salt, and fat, high fructose/sugar carbonated beverages, bourbon, and other culinary atrocities for ruining the American palate. The American wine industry, with its focus on uber-ripe fruit, oak, high abv, glossy and polished wines that are without soul, place, or often resembling wine (rather than the barrel that it was raised in), made an existing problem worse.
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For round figures, it used to be a $10.00 bottle at wholesale cost was $15 at retail and $30 on premise at a restaurant. That $10 bottle whole sale cost was $10 per glass for a wine by the glass. Not sure if that this holds true as it was 20 years ago…
I am probably one of the few people on WB that are in their twenties. Among my friends anything over $13 is leaning towards the “more” expensive category. However their are some friends that are into wine (through education or growing up with wine) and are willing to spend significantly more. I think a lot of the issues with younger people less interested in wine stem from wine education and snobbery. From my experience, a lot of people near my age prefer sweet wine (not the wonderful sweet dessert wines) and the only experience with “dry” wine has been an off-putting tannic young cab from California.
One interesting observation is that even when trying to get people to try dry to off-dry Riesling is a struggle. From my experiences, the vast majority of people my age don’t even know dry Riesling exists. As previous berserkers have mentioned a lot of this issue stems from the cost versus value proposition.
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Has not been my sense at restaurants.
I think you’re totally right.
I also think people’s tastes change as you age. I know I have gone from more sweet food and drink preferences to savory across the board starting in my mid or late 30s. I used to be a Starbucks mocha and espresso martini person at 30 and fast forward to 40 I was straight cappuccino and scotch person.
Preferences combined with disposable income definitely play major roles.
That’s probably not far off from today by ratio.
Say, Wholesale is now $20, retail is $30, restaurant is $60 and by the glass is $15. That’s about what I’m seeing at restaurants.
The same holds true for beer. It used to be $3-$5 for a good beer at a restaurant, and at least in San Diego it’s now $6-$10 for a good beer at a restaurant
You guys are doing a much better job picking restaurants than I am. If I can find a single bottle on a list a 2.5x retail I feel like I found the hidden gem. Typical is 3x retail and bad is 3.5x-4x retail. Even I (a long-time avid wine drinker) don’t drink wine at restaurants anymore because I feel so abused doing so.
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source for this bold claim?
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Yup, occasionally I’ll buy wine in a restaurant but it’s very rare compared to how frequently I drink wine at home.
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Corkage at restaurants has become a joke.
On a positive note last week I went to Belgium Bistro in San Clemente and the corkage was $30. What? But they give you a $30 gift card…
Brilliant.
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$30 corkage sure beats having to pay $200 for a too-young $50-at-retail bottle. These days, $30 corkage is the new $20. I can’t remember the last time I paid less than $25 for corkage.
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I’m ok with $20-$30 corkage for a bottle. There’s definitely a hard cost to the restaurant for the glasses (breakage over time), washing, serving etc. so I don’t mind that. Besides if I bring a $60-$80 bottle of wine I’m paying under $100 and getting a MUCH better wine.
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Here’s a simple question - are current 20-30 year olds as influenced by what their parents drink as they might have been 20-30 years ago?
My parents drank very little wine when I was growing up, mostly holiday meals and then it was often something like Cold Duck. I think my parents started drinking more wine partly because of my interest in it, although also because their disposable income went up as their kids left home and Mom started working.
Edited to add that my parents didn’t buy wine like most of the wines discussed on WB, Dad was a dedicated QPR hunter. I would send them some nicer wine (until shipping laws got bad enough), usually a mix of familiar varieties and some that might stretch their horizons.
-Al
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I also think that the more we talk about ‘industrial’ and ‘grocery store’ wines, it turns folks off - because that is where they conveniently shop for wines to start with, in addition to perhaps drizzly and the likes in larger cities.
We are the 1% on this board and trying to ‘see the forest through the trees’ sometimes is difficult.
I do not think the challenge is for wine consumers to drink ‘better’ wines - I think it is to find the wines that appeal to them and for the industry as a whole, and other consumers, to allow them, and EMPOWER them, to enjoy those wines. Period. Without judgement.
I posted something on social media regarding this topic - as a member of the wine community, I truly and honestly do not care what you drink . . . but I don’t want to ‘affect’ what you drink . . . and our industry, and ‘knowledgable wine consumers’, do this each and every day.
If the concept is to allow consumers to enjoy what they want, then we need to live this without asterisks.
Cheers
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Larry,
100% they are influenced. I just have no idea which way and if it’s good or bad :).
30 something here, my parents are older though and in their late 70s to 80s. They drank a Manhattan’s or a Gin & Tonic for “cocktail hour” after work, and that would be the one and only drink most nights. For nice dinners, think Christmas or Thanksgiving, they serve wine, but it would not be anything special. My Dad is still a drinker of Two Buck Chuck, and considers Apothic Red a good wine. He has stated his aging palate has left him unwilling to spend on wine as he doesn’t appreciate it the same way he did in his younger years. I would say my parents wine drinking has not inspired my wine drinking, my interest blossomed from somewhere else. I do enjoy a Manhattan or a gin martini though, and I would say that was influenced by my parents drinking habits.
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I can’t blame my parents for any of my drinking habits. When we built our house, the guy who did the taping and texturing asked Dad if we were Mormon. “You don’t cuss and you don’t seem to drink, so I was just wondering.”
His cocktail of choice on rare occasions was bourbon and ditch, a regional variant on bourbon and branch.
I agree with Geoff that some younger folks may be less interested in wine precisely because it was their parents’ drink.
-Al
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Man, I hope so… Or else a lot of people have been wasting money on birth year wines
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