Not talking about the crap that is out there (ie. most of it) the real deal, Genuine (Honduran/CA) it is beautiful wood WHEN finished. Redwood looks best in its natural state. I’m no tree hugger but the way the forests of Central America have been stripped Genuine Mahogany should be banned. Redwood comes mostly from managed forests (whatever that means) but being in Cali puts the industry under a much larger microscope.
To put the pricing in perspective the last time I priced it out raw material was 2X cherry and 1.75X walnut. Couple that with the cost of finishing and it quickly becomes prohibitive.
Cedar is fine if you want your cellar to smell like a hampster cage, I’ve been in 10+ year old cellars that still stink. Western Red is getting prices too.
Can’t say I’ve seen a cypress cellar, I imagine if they use it for siding it should make a good cellar. I haven’t seen clear cypress but it must exist as I know they are big trees. ? for pricing, not common here, I’ll see if my lumber supplier has any to play with as I never worked with it.
Using water based stains or oil with ample curing time and there is usually no smell. This whole issue with can be avoided with redwood . To me building racks out of redwood is like growing PN in Burgundy
Now that is interesting. I delayed building out a basement cellar due to water issues, but after a sump pump, french drains, and sealed concrete (I’m a real belt and suspenders sort of guy) that isn’t a concern any more. So if the cellar stays dry (and not TOO humid) maybe I shouldn’t stress about it and just go with the cheaper pine.
Were the pine racks stained or painted, JC? Or were they unfinished?
Dan, the racks are unfinished. Regarding the humidity issue, 70% is probably on the high side, with it being drier in the winter months. I’ve got a Breezaire cooler which does a good job keeping the humidity higher.
I don’t see it being an issue. About five years ago, a fitting came loose from the kitchen sink, which is above the room right next to the cellar. It happened a night we were out of town, so had a 1000 or so gallons run down into the basement including the cellar. We were able to get everything dried out professionally, and no mold / mildew issues.
I think you should go for pine because pine wood has a great strength and hardness, and is very resistant to insect and fungal attack because of its high tannin content.
I devoted a total of 9 grey cells to “building my cellar,” which in reality is a finished room in my basement. I bought the cheapest racks I could find (spending 8 of the 9 grey cells in the process of finding the very, very cheapest). Some are metal, the rest are pine. I also used the fooler-circuit and room a/c method of cooling. The racks hold my wine nice and steady – they have never dropped a bottle – and the a/c keeps things a brisk 58 degrees. And I have never thought of inviting any guest to join me for a glass of wine in my cellar because it is, as I say, a brisk 58 degrees down there and not an inviting place to drink.
Pine is light weight and used to be relatively cheap but all wood has gone up these days. Anyhow, use a water-based poly on it and it will be fine. It’s what I’ve used and my cellar has never had any mold whatsoever. Assuming you’re going to build individual slots, the weight isn’t going to be an issue at all because each bottle will only be resting on it’s own tracks and the standards will be running vertically - how are they likely to break?
Redwood is nice too, but more expensive. And mahogany is quite beautiful but IMO a waste to use in a closet where you aren’t going to be looking at it all that much. I have a lot of it in the house. It’s what most pianos were made from. Was also used for furniture, etc. I have a friend who goes down to central America to buy old mahogany logs that he ships up and turns into furniture or uses for repair of 17th century antique furniture. It’s gorgeous stuff and resistant to rot - the stuff he buys was out in the jungle in abandoned buildings for a hundred years or longer and it’s never rotted. I even have some on my floor that’s from reclaimed railroad ties - again, it’s beautiful, strong, and mold resistant.
That said, there’s a lot of stuff sold as mahogany that isn’t. Some of it is just as nice and if it’s tropical wood, it will usually have good mold-resistant properties. Just make sure it’s from some sustainable region.
I don’t know what kind of pine they use for racks, as they’re not all the same; white pine is easy to work but quite soft and somewhat prone to blue staining (not a deal breaker, IMO), while yellow pine can be quite a bit harder and can be a bit more trouble to work due to the early wood/latewood hardness variations (nails occasionally go off course). Neither, in my experience, has a particularly strong odor, nothing at all like red cedar in that regard.
But repeating what I said above, under normal cellar conditions (no floods, no ultra-high humidity as with a dirt floor, no earthquakes, etc.) most commonly available woods are going to give you years of service as bottle racking. They won’t rot out or fall apart due to weakness (if engineered and constructed correctly).
I completely agree, but then I believe in the functional cellar rather than the showplace cellar.
[Mahogany] is gorgeous stuff and resistant to rot - the stuff he buys was out in the jungle in abandoned buildings for a hundred years or longer and it’s never rotted.
A reprint I have of a late 19th century British book on woodworking mentions a trial of rot resistance among several commonly used woods; they put boards in what they called a “fungus pit” (might have been a compost pile, or mushroom growing medium) and when they came back 5 years later the oak, cypress, pine, fir, etc. had all completely rotted, only the (genuine) Mahogany was still sound.
You can see that pine and redwood, and even mahogany are all fairly similar. If you wanted something stronger, you’d need to look at maple, oak, or some exotic hardwoods. But why? Any of these racks are strong enough to hold wine if properly made.
As for building your compost pit in your wine cellar, well then go with teak or ipe.
Otherwise, aesthetic. Mattered a bit to me, though.
FWIW, Chris Kravitz built and installed my redwood double deep racking in my cellar. It looks brand new 10 years down the road. I’d trust Chris on cellar building issues.
I have pine shelving that hold case boxes in 52 degree, 65% humidity (water bowl in the cellar below the WhisperKool fans) and not a stitch of mold for three years now. The pine looks fresh and strong with good color. Underneath the flooring is finished concrete and unit is closed cell foam sealed. The pine shelves are supported with very few fir uprights. The floor is unfinished oak plywood with a restaurant style rubber mat over it. The walls are mold resistant sheetrock, spackled with a mold inhibitor in the paint. Bay area weather, so humidity up and down throughout the year. Since my pine is shelves it does need support for the weight, so I have a ledger boards that run horizontally screwed to the walls to help keep the shelves flat. Did I do all that? Maybe you should just buy some racking.
I mentioned cedar earlier in this thread as an example of a moisture-resistant wood; Chris Kravitz noted that in his experience cedar racking retains that cedar aroma for a long time and that he finds that objectionable. I wouldn’t particularly want to finish all those hundreds of small wood parts of a wine rack, but that would take care of any odor issues if it was an issue for anyone.
![[soap.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/a7ea1fffd3ef237e8f19d17a83270ad8452218ca.gif "soap"){kind=small}
. To me building racks out of redwood is like growing PN in Burgundy ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}