edited - personal attack.
Covid has majorly disrupted distribution channels. Fires slashed west coast production this year, which counters any surplus. There’s not going to be a bubble popping. There is and will be a lot of scrambling to adapt to all the disruption. If you see any great deals, it’s at someone’s expense. Not a good thing to be hoping for. Support the wineries you care about. If you think you’re spending too much money on wine, you probably are. Put down the magazines and the drool cup, do some leg work and find some producers who don’t bother with the hype machine, and just make honestly great wines.
I got a chuckle out of “Le Pin” and “cracking good value for money” in the same sentence.
Nope. Don’t count on it. If tariffs disappear, I bet many outlets will simply keep prices the same, or lower them a little bit (not in proportion to the lifting of tariffs). And rich people have done fine through COVID, and that’s who’s buying fine wine.
I can tell you are upset, and I am sorry that you feel the need to be so rude and hurl insults. By way of example…I don’t think a 15% bubble in first grow bordeaux is really “at someones expense”, or a 15% drop in Krug is “at someones expense”. When they jack prices up by 15%, I also don’t view it as them doing it at “my expense”. I am sorry you feel a need to be hostile.
You clearly don’t know Wes too well. That’s how he talks. If you can’t handle that then you might want to avoid the Internet.
![[thankyou.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/df165fe9c1593d19166ae7e1ffe5e272089cc07b.gif "thankyou"){kind=small}
![[winner.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/07ec25c9fd71159fe15d7f1ba5fad64e91238d0e.gif "winner"){kind=small}
There must be a back-story here? Did John stir something up in another thread? His statement is merely one of logical conjecture, not one of celebrating or hoping-for desperate times of this nature — at least, not how I read it. If a winery ever offers a sale, should the customer not buy?
Preemptively: I certainly understand the harrowing situation the fires have put, are putting, and will put, many wineries into, so that doesn’t need to be pointed-out to me. I get it. But if a winery makes an offer it is, presumably, because they are trying to get customers to buy. Is there something morally wrong with customers accepting wineries’ offers to sell? Years ago, Steve E. blew-out his remaining stock of 2011 Congruence Cabernets at great pricing; I bought a case. I would not have bought at regular pricing. Was I wrong to accept Steve’s offer? Did I have a moral obligation to pass on the Sale if I wasn’t going to be a customer at regular pricing? I am really confused here, and am just going to assume the mere mention of “fires” elicited an emotional response … that or there is a backstory and I’m just not privy to it.
If a winery or retailer offers a deal, presumably they think they’re better off if customers buy those wines than if they don’t, right? I don’t think you’re a bad person if you buy the discounted wines offered in that situation.
[I see Brian posted a similar thought while I was typing.]
You are preaching this to the people who are bothered, right? The OP is not hoping for something to happen to the wineries. Causation.
Btw, how do we know Wes better and why? Is Wes handling the waiting list for Screaming Eagle?
No back story, never mean, trying to learn, love wine, genuinely find people here very helpful. I was just trying to see if there were places I might want to look. That simple!
Relative to recent years releases, £6000/3 is a lot better than 2018 (£6750/3 is what I found it available for on first release, going up to maybe £8500/3 pre-COVID peak on the secondary).
It’s no comment on the wine itself, but if you index that against previous years both at release, and current secondary, it’s a good deal however you cut it.
With all due respect, please don’t presume to tell me what to avoid, what i can and can’t handle. I don’t avoid going to the park because there are dogs, and I sure as hell don’t avoid bullys… All I did was ask a question. Politely I might add!
No doubt you are correct, it makes no a difference to me. There is zero chance I’ll be buying Le Pin at £2k or even £1.5k to drink. If you’re looking for an investment, have at it
Those might correlate more with luxury goods than wine and I hear the super wealthy are doing better than ever.
OTCMKTS: LVMUY
Are we in a bubble? In short I’d say no, almost certainly not. The supply and demand character of wine interest combined with the global distribution of wine and information about it have permanently changed the marketplace. That includes higher price regimes for the low volume/high quality/in demand segments of the market. This doesn’t mean prices won’t ever go down, of course they will. But we’re not going to see dramatic price changes or returns to pricing regimes of 10 years ago, let alone 20 or more.
My guess is that we’ll see more wines join the ranks of top Burgundy/Rhône/Piedmont/Napa/etc. I.e. a handful of wines in the $300+ range and beyond. We’ll also see more wines from many many regions go from $20-$40 to $60-$80.
There is a positive element to this - higher prices across the wine world will draw more new winemakers into the market. It’s not that they will see the chance to get rich - but to make a decent living making a product they love. We will all benefit from this. In fact we’re seeing this already with a huge infusion of new, super high quality focused wine growers and wine makers in every wine region I can think of.
there were some good deals in the spring, there may be more going forward, we’ll just have to see.
High-end Burgundy - soar higher
Other Burgundy - stable
Other France - stable/down
Barolo - higher
High-end Italy - stable
Other Italy - stable/down
Spain - stable
Germany - stable
US-Ca - stable/down
Edited to remove snarky comment due to my poor reading comprehension
Sounds like people who have been forced out of their homes and are watching their entire life’s work going up in flames, or worrying that they might be next, are a little peeved to see people circling their still-warm carcasses to see if there is anything to pick over.