Wine list buying vs. corkage habit

[ybarselah]

most of my eating is in NYC, i’d say i bring 30% of the time and it’s always something special. but even then 100% of the time i buy one off the list. i have a professional bias towards this now, but i’ve pretty much always done this.

Good point, thanks Yaacov. Agreed. Unless the place is truly BYO only, like many in Philly, we almost always buy something off the list as well.

I VERY rarely buy off the list other than a cocktail. While I know it doesn’t help the ownership of the restaurant, I compensate the waitstaff and sommelier appropriately for the accommodation of letting me bring my bottles to lunch/dinner.

but the restaurant loses on the revenue which pays BOH and w/ whom your tips may not be legally shared. so with you, the check average goes down. i won’t make the case that you’re “hurting” the restaurant as you’re only one, but the justification, etc…, isn’t aligned with the reality of the business.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

[
but the restaurant loses on the revenue which pays BOH and w/ whom your tips may not be legally shared. so with you, the check average goes down. i won’t make the case that you’re “hurting” the restaurant as you’re only one, but the justification, etc…, isn’t aligned with the reality of the business.

I’m not so sure I bring the check average down unless I’m dining at a prix fixe restaurant. And depending on the corkage, that still might not be the case.

[Dennis_Atick]

I VERY rarely buy off the list other than a cocktail. While I know it doesn’t help the ownership of the restaurant, I compensate the waitstaff and sommelier appropriately for the accommodation of letting me bring my bottles to lunch/dinner.

+1 on both accounts.
I haven’t bought a wine off a list in the U.S. in years.
I’m not quite the purist as many here, and often enjoy cocktails, or a beer, when dining out and not byobing.

[ybarselah]

[
but the restaurant loses on the revenue which pays BOH and w/ whom your tips may not be legally shared. so with you, the check average goes down. i won’t make the case that you’re “hurting” the restaurant as you’re only one, but the justification, etc…, isn’t aligned with the reality of the business.

I’m not so sure I bring the check average down unless I’m dining at a prix fixe restaurant. And depending on the corkage, that still might not be the case.

that’s likely true, though depending on several other factors, such as whether they’re fully booked or not.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

[
but the restaurant loses on the revenue which pays BOH and w/ whom your tips may not be legally shared. so with you, the check average goes down. i won’t make the case that you’re “hurting” the restaurant as you’re only one, but the justification, etc…, isn’t aligned with the reality of the business.

I’m not so sure I bring the check average down unless I’m dining at a prix fixe restaurant. And depending on the corkage, that still might not be the case.

that’s likely true, though depending on several other factors, such as whether they’re fully booked or not.

I’ll give the extreme example of Bouley at Home. I go with a friend and we bring three bottles for lunch. Tasting menu is $75pp. My corkage is $300. Unless every other table for two is ordering at least $300 in wine (and even then, the profit on that is less than the profit on my corkage), I bring the average up. Whether full or not.

[Fred_C]

I used to think that I was okay with a restaurant charging me progressive corkage as long as they allow me to bring as many bottles as I want (35/35/65/65/75).

However I’ve recently discovered SF restaurants (Angler is one of them) are doing 65/65/100/100/100…so that has given me some pause.

I understand a restaurant needs to make money, but at $100 a bottle corkage, I’m going elsewhere.

[Chris_D1]

Do restaurants tend to set their corkage fee at the markup of the average bottle sold? Seems to be that way, so if I pay the typical margin why should the restaurant care so long as I also spiff the waiter?

[Neal.Mollen]

Mostly corkage for at least 1 bottle, like 80-90%. I buy and taste alot of weird wines so I don’t feel the need to explore new wines at a restaurant. We do buy a second bottle of the list about 50% of the time.

In fact I was really annoyed that Fiola in DC changed their policy on corkage and does not allow it now. I didnt realize until yesterday. No time to get another reservation at an equivalent restaurant, so I’ll suck it up and buy from the list tomorrow.

I still don’t understand why 3x markup applies to both $20 wines as well as those that retail for $500. grumble grumble.

I did not think that they ever allowed it on weekends. And during the week it was something like $60/btl.

We never buy off the list (unless we go to one of the Fabio Trabocchi places, and we would eat at one of them A LOT more often if we could bring our own at a reasonable tariff). Or at least I can’t remember the last time I did.

Tex Mex/Mex we will drink margaritas or beer. Sandwich level places mean beer usually. But we never ever buy wine off the list.

[Mark_Thompson]

Good point, thanks Yaacov. Agreed. Unless the place is truly BYO only, like many in Philly, we almost always buy something off the list as well.

I VERY rarely buy off the list other than a cocktail. While I know it doesn’t help the ownership of the restaurant, I compensate the waitstaff and sommelier appropriately for the accommodation of letting me bring my bottles to lunch/dinner.

but the restaurant loses on the revenue which pays BOH and w/ whom your tips may not be legally shared. so with you, the check average goes down. i won’t make the case that you’re “hurting” the restaurant as you’re only one, but the justification, etc…, isn’t aligned with the reality of the business.

This seems like it would be a pretty extreme view on not taking ANY chance that Ray’s approach to restaurant patronage could POSSIBLY be suboptimal for either the business or any of its employees. He’s paying a fair corkage and overtipping…he could just stay home, which (unless they are consistently packed with people buying expensive wines) probably is also suboptimal for both the restaurant and its employees. I guess Ray could solve for this by writing $1k checks to all the restaurants in his neighborhood to help them cover expenses. (Just making a point).

[scamhi]

I tend to go where me and my wine are welcome. Of course there are exceptions and it is not a hard fast rule.

[Arv_R]

Most of the time we’ll do corkage, and free/low corkage is a big driver for picking something for casual dining. In CA, its normally pretty easy to find BYO friendly venues. When we are in other Western states, in particular CO and ID its trickier, and we’ll at least look at the wine list. In some places we might find something that works for us. At least in UT if you have the Utah tax stamp on the bottle - from an in state purchase - one is supposed to be able to BYO.

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My life observation is that most places that insist on being hardnosed / shitty about corkage end up ‘Closed for Renovations’ if they are not at the The French Laundry level of cachet. These are the kinds of places that demand one doesn’t bring a bottle on their own list…but don’t have any list one can peruse online. Or put their own quality control like ‘must be older than 10 yrs or special in sommeliers sole determination’ etc.

[Jeff_M1]

I tend to not want to overpay to buy wine they mark up too much at restaurants. Sometimes I will buy a glass but most of the time I will get a beer or cocktail and drink my wine at home

[Shan_A]

I try to only go to places that have BYO.

[Dav3_Dyr0ff]

Casual to moderate places, I will usually drink beer or a cocktail, or water (and then have wine at home). Sometimes a wine by the glass if they have something interesting for $10-$15.

Nicer places, I almost always bring my own wine, and it’s almost always older than anything on the list. I like to drink wines with age and of course I don’t like paying huge markups. I’m happy to pay reasonable corkage.

On those rare occasions where I’m ordering off a list, depending on the situation, my max is going to come in somewhere between $50-$125 per. I’d rather pay triple retail for a $15 (retail) Chianti or Cotes du Rhone or whatever, that is at least ready to drink, than pay double retail for an $85 (retail) bottle of great and age-worthy, but young, wine from the current vintage.

Using your three questions, I’m probably 15 or 20 to 1 on questions 1 and 2 because at casual places where I don’t bring wine the alternative is beer or water rather than wine off the list, and at “moderate and above” I almost always bring wine. On your question 3, I’m 1000 to 0 - virtually all of the wine I bring to nicer places would be over $150 on the list, given the age and the restaurant markup, and if I do buy off the list it’s never over $150. I guess, hypothetically, if Fu were buying and he told me to go crazy, I might crack that barrier but otherwise I’m just not going there.

And while we’re at it, what does Dodger Stadium charge for corkage during the post-season?

[bweimer]

Almost always bring my own wine and actively look for restaurants with fair corkage policies. Always bring my own stems to places with free corkage.

[Shan_A]

Almost always bring my own wine and actively look for restaurants with fair corkage policies. Always bring my own stems to places with free corkage.

How do you physically bring this stuff, what bag do you have?

[alan_weinberg]

Typically do a cocktail, a beer and glass with dinner. Rarely a bottle from the list and, when we do, it’s sub $100. Always prefer bringing a nice bottle if the venue allows. Hate paying the markups on wine when I have a cellar of great juice at home.

+1. and we always share w somm or staff. Always a bottle they’d never see.

[M_Meer]

Unfortunately, most places in LA don’t get it. Angler’s looks like it might be possible to go off the list for a change.

[David_Glasser]

Business dinners I order off the list. We keep it in the $50-100 range and hope for something palatable or interesting on the list. Exciting rarely happens.

Private dinners we usually BYO or go with a cocktail or sparkler to start, followed by a glass of wine if something appeals. If nothing looks good, a cocktail or iced tea and water. If a wine on the list is very appealing and is a good deal we might order a bottle.

I have no interest in analyzing the restaurant’s business model and tip distribution system to come to some decision on what to order or bring based on that calculation. I want to drink something I like at a price I can tolerate.

We usually tip 25% on the entire bill unless an expensive bottle was ordered, which rarely occurs. Significantly more if a group brought a lot of bottles and corkage was reasonable.

[Chris_Seiber]

Unless the restaurant has an amazing cellar, I bring my own. I like older wine, and 99% of all restaurants have young wines with horrible mark ups. Happy to pay a reasonable corkage

Me too.

Plus, bringing wine takes all the pressure off everyone for wine selection and cost. Otherwise, I’d be “the wine guy” expected to pick wines off the list for the table, then having to guess which wines (a) aren’t going to offend others with the cost, yet (b) aren’t going to suck and reflect badly on me for picking them.

I bring good wines, everyone gets what they want, no stress.