Wine ingredient labeling

WINE TALK
21

I do not understand why alcohol should be different than any other product they consume?

Sure I can. [cheers.gif]

22

Do you think they even know to ask if there are ingredients in them?

23



There are many consumers who would care very strongly about this issue (anyone who seeks out organic food, for starters). However, wine has been so mystified that even people who eat ONLY organic foods don’t know that there is such a thing as wine additives…they are simply unaware that there is anything to be concerned about.

It’s a testament to how successful the wine industry has in pulling the wool over consumer’s eyes. Or possibly how deeply people want to believe that wine is a “special” and pure beverage outside the nasty purview of chemicals, additives, etc

Edit. I just see that Hardy made the same point much more succinctly

24

Sure I can. > [cheers.gif]

Thanks Hardy. I had assumed you wanted to be part of the solution. My bad for making that assumption.

25

That’s a good question - and one that certainly deserves attention.

If we are dealing with ‘health issues’ here, then shouldn’t the conversation revolve around those things that can adversely affect those with health issues? I know of consumers who are allergic to eggs, for instance, who ask point blank if I use any eggs or egg byproducts in my wines. They are proactive in their inquiries.

Does ‘mega purple’ have anything in it that may lead to any specific health issues? If yeast does, well then folks should just not drink wine - whether we are dealing with ‘indigenous’ or ‘cultured’ - it doesn’t matter. And SO2? Well the government tells us what levels we can be within whereby we need to state the wines contain sulfites.

Perhaps there can be more ‘specificity’ in terms of what folks would want to see in terms of what’s in a wine. And then comes enforcement - and that’s where $$$ starts to come into it - but also ‘truth in advertising’ does as well . . .

Cheers!

26

Not wanting to get into a discussion of “what ifs?” has nothing to do with me wanting to being part of the solution (or potential problem).

27

Well laws get drafted poorly if people don’t address the what-ifs. Unfortunately, that’s the normal case and then you have litigation in front of some judges to figure it all out. Those solutions may not please anyone.

But I don’t think the wine industry has “pulled the wool” over anyone’s eyes. It’s a legit point Larry makes - how many people actually have questions? To claim that they don’t have questions because they’re completely mystified implies that they’re also completely helpless and can’t figure out that they might simply ask. Somehow issues that become big public movements percolate up and it just doesn’t seem like there’s a huge movement. People CAN set examples though, and Ridge and others at least attempt to do so. That might be a bit of peer pressure that stimulates more to do it.

I think a lot of the so-called wool that gets pulled over people’s eyes comes from the romantic types like Matt Kramer and his ilk that feel compelled to talk about magic and soul and the rest. Why not just enjoy it?

28

Katrina,

Comparing the wine industry to the situation depicted in The Jungle is a gross exaggeration. Humans falling into rendering vats and being made into food? First off, that was itself proving to be an exaggeration. But wine in this country is not comparable to that situation and in way…

…except maybe one way. Sinclair was incredibly upset at the governments reaction to The Jungle He felt that it led to regulations that cost taxpayers $30 million dollars, benefited only the larger meat packing plants (where the problems were in the first place), hurt and ultimately closed the smaller meatpacking plants (which were cleaner), and ultimately was a “punch in the gut” to consumers.

Fortunately, I spent a lot of time studying that period of time in American History (thanks to Char Miller, my American history preofessor in college).

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

29

Adam – obviously the situations are not analagous nor was I saying they were. I was simply pointing out that gov’mint regulation of/intervention in our food industries (as well as others) is inevitably flawed, limited, expensive and over-reaching all at the same time. It is better, however, than the alternative – no regulation, as illustrated in Sinclair’s novel.

30

Katrina mentions people being “unaware that there is anything to be concerned about.” What pray tell is there to be “concerned about?” I know people like to get all up in arms about Mega Purple and added acid, but other than idealogical issues, what is really the problem in terms of food safety?

Is this about what people are putting in their bodies or about wanting to know exactly how a wine was made (in which case a link to a website does seem more appropriate).

31

I wonder how many wineries that claimn to be “natural” would like to be forced to add this to their labels: “may contain higher levels of ethyl acetate and harmful biogenic amines due to the use of indigenous yeast and/or bacteria”. That type of information would be way more important to someone worried about their health than listing added tartaric acid or any fining agent that didn’t remain in the wine.

32

But even if you actively inoculate, isn’t that indigenous yeast and bacteria still there?

33

They get overwhelmed by the added yeast - since yeast are competitive. Also, many of us add SO2 at the crusher to lessen the impact of any indigenous critters.

34

Whoa, this thread is a lot more combative than I expected. I absolutely agree with Larry that ingredient labeling laws speak to truth in advertising more than anything else. To be quite honest, I think it’s entirely fair. At the very least it will let the consumer determine whether or not the narrative being told by producers is true or relevant to them.

35

I would love to watch someone in the grocery store reading a wine “ingredient” label. I bet sales of wine would drop by a noticeable percentage. Most people would not even understand the type of labeling that Ridge uses.

36

It doesn’t take long for the “biogenic amine” point to pop up in an argument about wine labelling. And it’s true that, as someone with marked histamine sensitivity, I would like to know this about wine and foods, generally.

However, even food labelling hasn’t got to this point yet. The makers of sauerkraut or aged cheese do not yet have to mention levels of biogenic amines in their products.

This is just another way of overcomplicating the issue and waving ones hands and saying “this is too hard to do with wine because it is such a special case.” Very simple to list on a label whatever has come in a bag or a box and has been added to the wine in the process of making it (whether or not it remains in the final wine, as with Mega purple, or dissipates as with Velcorin)

37

But that’s a false choice…we do have regulation currently.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

38

Not simple at all. For one thing, food labeling hasn’t gotten to the point of labeling Velcorin either…but that’s really an aside. Wine is unique in that labels are approved on a state level basis as well as a federal basis. My federally approved label is banned (by one inspector) in a state. My federally approved label is banned in certain states if it is over 15% alcohol on the label. That is not something food products deal with (at least not to my knowledge).

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

39

Not with respect to ingredient labeling on wine (except for sulfites and abv).

40

Sorry, I thought you were comparing it to the Sinclair’s The Jungle, where you said there were no regulations. Labeling regulations didn’t come from The Jungle. The wine business has significant regulations.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines