Dude is going to out-question Larry. Historic. 
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Nobody out questions Larry! Thatâs some sort of Bizzaro universe thinking there.
I get some of the legal arguments, but I am no lawyer. I canât speak to many of them - although it has always seemed weird to me that votes to form a WID were based on revenue, but once the WID was formed votes on things going forward are one-winery, one-vote (until the WID needs to be re-approved, then it reverts to revenue based). â All of which is moo (to quote Joey Tribbiani) if WIDs worked. If WIDs worked, the legal issues would be glossed over, we wouldnât have 340 comments here and weâd all be jumping at the opportunity to join any group that assessed such a small fee and truly increased sales. But at the moment, thereâs no indication that WIDs work.
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Temecula just reported their latest information (which they do far more frequently than anybody else - credit to them). In November and December visitation declined 11.6%. Year-to-date visitation is down 6.4%. Year-to-date DTC sales were up 0.7% but (according to their calculations, which I have some issues with) the statewide winery average DTC sales were up 6.7%.
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Livermore reports annually only on the WID - and they show that they spent 24% more on marketing but revenue was down 9%. Livermore Wine District Sees 24% Marketing Hike but 9% Drop in Revenue as WID Model Faces Scrutiny
So as not to make Larry answer more questions - I already know that he will argue that it could be worse if not for these WIDs. And that is unprovable. What is provable is that they arenât accomplishing what was promised. Eventually, someone is going to have to stand up and say, âWe are charging people extra money, sending a ton of money to a company called Civitas, spending time and energy on setting up these WIDs, and this shit isnât working.â Once that point is reached then maybe we will join together as a wine industry throughout California and work together to develop new ideas to market our wines.
Adam Lee
Clarice Wine Company
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Your comment precisely describes why the assessment is an unconstitutional tax. The assessment must be a specific direct benefit to the paying business, not a second hand benefit.
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The collection agency can charge late fees, interest, and collection costs. Usually itâs HdL Companies.
We all know once it starts it doesnât stop
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Good morning, my friend and thanks for the comments. There is data showing that Tbids - those associated with travel - have been quite successful over the long term. Are they âsuccessfulâ from Day 1 - or even Day 365? Thatâs hard to say.
What I do know is that trying to raise awareness of a region is not an overnight endeavor, even when an economy is bustling and people are readily paying lots of money to travel and visit wine regions. These days, that is far from the case.
We all know that visitation to nearly every CA wine region is down this year - and may have been down last year. Itâs tough to get âspecificsâ but the figure that Temecula posted would not be out of reason.
One other thing to consider - we know in SBC that are BID revenue will be lower than projected. Why? Because DTC sales are much lower in our region than the Association had budgeted for based on prior year sales . . . meaning that we are both seeing less people and people are spending less than expected already - before any BID initiatives have been able to be fully implemented.
What I would say is that some patience is going to be required to see how this pans out. I am still optimistic but time will tell.
Better?
Thank you for your interest. My Italian grandparents emigrated from the side of Mount Vesuvius in 1913 and ended up in Paterson NJ. Each year they and their friends purchased California grapes from a wine shop at the Newark N.J. train station. Each family made a barrel of wine. I went to Montclair State then Duke Law and practiced law with a large international law firm in LA for 35 years. I belonged to the Chevaliers etc. When I married Cathy she had a small house in Long Beach with a side yard. We planted Pinot and for about 10 years made a 15 gallon barrel of wine. 
We were the oldest, largest and only vineyard in Long Beach and perhaps the first. 
In the 1990s we were nearing the end of our legal careers but not ready to retire. We purchased a 40 acre horse ranch in what later became the Santa Rita Hills AVA. We were the sixth vineyard and there were then three wineries in the SRH. Now there are over three dozen vineyards and about two dozen wineries in the SRH. We were a founding member of the SRHWA and very active in securing the AVA designation for the SRH. We were members of the SB Vintners for several decades. We had 25 acres of Pinot and four acres of Chardonnay. Depending on Mother Nature we made around a 900 cases of Pinot and 250 cases of Chardonnay and sold the rest of our grapes to local and Napa wineries. We did not have a California, let alone a national distributor. Our customers were mostly local- SB, LA and Orange County. Occasionally an out of the area or out of state tourist would stop by and buy some wine. We did not have a tasting room and did tastings by appointment. Wineries that have 10,000s of cases of wine to sell need to attract out of the area and national customers. Most also use distributors. Thus, small wineries are in a different market than large wineries. Small wineries shouldnât be forced by the government to pay for the large wineries marketing.
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Canât argue there. Iâm a fan of the small wineries and am in favor of whatever works for them. Thereâs so many angles that itâs hard to ascertain how much of a benefit there is for the small winery. Does a rising tide float all ships? Who knows. But as noted by Adam, the creation of the BID is skewed to the vote of the big players (billionaires as you call them). The legality of the BID shall play out in court. I have zero idea if the challenge holds any water.
BTW also a Patersonian here. My grandparents house was paved over in the mid 60âs as part of the Rt 80 project.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, Stephen. Iâm familiar with your background, of course, and even did a tasting at your property maybe a decade ago.
Iâm not quite so sure your experience is universal among small wineries in the area, but itâs good to hear more about your reasoning.
One other major point to remember here is that Stephen and his brand have actually not been in the market for about a decade. And a lot has changed in the past decade with regards to the way Wine is sold.
Larry is correct. I am now more important - I am a wine buyer!!!
What hasnât changed is the First Amendment right of Freedom of Association which prohibits the government, Federal, State, County or City from forcing folks to join an organization they donât want to join. Especially, an organization that only exists because the weighted vote of the 20 large wineries out voted the hundred or more small wineries. That is why they wonât release the percentage vote without names.
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This is the part I completely disagree with.
The issue is âwho is the target of this marketingâ? Is it the âaverage consumerâ? Basically, anyone who likes to travel? Get them to come to SBC? Or is it wine lovers? And what level of wine lover? Casual? Geek? Collector? And what age groups? Itâs an issue because all the groups have different wants, needs, and agendas when it comes to choosing where to visit.
While I get the ârising tideâ argument â weâre truthfully not all in the same pool of water. If itâs more wine geeks to the region â that will help us - maybe. But if itâs the generic wine person, they probably want the âwinery at the vineyardâ experience â which weâre shut out from. Or maybe a day in cute Los Olivos (where Larry is) with grand hotels and lots of amazing restaurants. We canât offer that in Lompoc. And history tells me that the generic wine person makes up the vast majority of visitors.
You can claim that people will find us little guys because theyâve decided to visit SBC, but experience tells me thatâs not true. We opened a tasting room (with Cargasacchi) next to The Hitching Post. Great location, right? And at the time we were arguably two of the hottest names amongst internet wine board geeks. We thought weâd get lots of people stopping in. Turns out, not so much, because the average wine drinker had either never heard of us, or was looking for the vineyard winery experience. Maybe if itâs in a town like Los Olivos with foot traffic, but thatâs not us. Nor a lot of other small wineries.
Sure, we could move. At which point Iâd agree to be part of a combined marketing plan - for that area. But until I see how we could benefit from the marketing, I donât feel we should be forced to help pay for it.
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And you are making an assumption that the marketing is not aimed at the people you think it should be aimed at, right? Have you expressed this to the Vintners at all and made your voice heard?
You do understand that we have a member driven organization where every member has a say. You may not believe thatâs true, but it certainly is. We have very small Winery members on the board and other small Wine members who are part of committees. You certainly can do so yourself if you wanted to, right?
I do understand the frustration, and Iâm not minimizing it, but I think that there are multiple ways of looking at this.
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Does a small winery have the same say as a large winery? Or does the large winery have 100x the say of the small winery?
There are multiple ways to answer that. As others have pointed out above, the voting to create the bid is based on sales volume, not one vote per Winery.
After the bid was created, every Winery has the same power as any other in terms of what happens with that money. They may not believe thatâs the case, but it certainly is. The board of directors of our organization is full of both large and small wineries, taking part.
The association often times asks for volunteers to assist, and as a member driven organization, it is up to those who have strong opinions to voice them. Itâs great to voice them here, but much better to voice them within the association itself.
I am not on the board, but have volunteered to take part in different committees because I felt it was important for me to do so. Do I have the time truly to do it? Thatâs somewhat of an existential question. But I believe itâs important enough to make the time.
Hope that answers your question.
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Yes and Yes. Iâm not saying it should be only aimed at people who would benefit us, but that should at least be a consideration. And in a way that isnât just tied to⌠âa rising tide floats all boatsâ. As long as that idea drives the marketing, folks like us wonât see any benefit.
Iâve said it before, and Iâll keep saying it until Iâm blue in the face. The only fair way to fund marketing for a region is to place a tax/fee on the grapes purchased from that region. That way everyone participates. I know it would have been difficult for SBC since those type taxes have to be based upon agricultural areas defined by the state. And SBC is part of a larger area. So, they took the easy path. Classic case of treating the symptom vs treating the root cause.
Why do I keep being drawn into this discussion? I guess itâs moth to a flame syndrome. Iâm really so over it⌠but it does trigger me now and again. Look - I hope it does work. That would be great. But the plans Iâve seen, and the data Adam listed, just underscores all my concerns.
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Brian,
Iâm just curious if you know how difficult it is to change a California agricultural district area? Itâs not to say it canât happen and I believe that it still should happen.
That said, thereâs no way that the funds raised will equal what weâre able to raise. Look at Sonoma. They have one and you can probably figure out how much it accounts for their marketing. Not as much as we would need.
We should still push for this as much as possible. It will be difficult to push us out of district 8, but I agree that we should be separated. We have been included along with San Luis Obispo County and Paso for way too long with regards to this.
But until that happens, we wonât be able to make any changes with regards to that.
Geez Larry you didnât wait for my response! When I did you tried to discredit it by saying he is no longer in the biz. 
Larry, I donât know what the percentage vote was, that is why I am asking the Vintners and the BOS to release the percentage vote without names. When the nonsense reply is we wonât because it is propriety, then it reinforces my suspicion that I am right. A broken clock is right twice each day.
Or maybe they legally donât or canât do that because then it will provide proprietary information about wineries. Have you thought of it in that manner? But Iâm just guessing. I donât know why.