This is pretty much the case with all of these status signals, no? My wife sees (and disdains) signals in handbags I don’t even notice. She won’t notice a Patek or Paul Newman Daytona or Vacheron but I might. There are few marques that are instantly recognizable to the masses, and when a logo gets to that level of ubiquity, I suspect they lose some of their signaling power. Vuitton? Gucci?
It seems to me the apex examples given above in Bordeaux, Burgundy and California are all small production relative to region and are contrarian examples.
Petrus second lowest production of the Big 8 with a 2500 average case production
Romanee Conti averages 450 cases a year.
Screaming Eagle is 550 to about 800 cases.
There appears to be some flexibility, or unique evolution in definition of Veblen goods in terms of supply, or these are not really Veblen wines.
I may need more coffee, or a more clear explanation.
I once talked to someone who had consulted for a Napa winery. One of the first things he told them was to raise the price of their top Cabernet dramatically. He said it wasn’t priced highly enough for certain buyers to be interested. When the next vintage released, the same wine for much more money, demand increased a lot for that wine, which helped the winery’s sales overall.
I think Champagne is the best Veblen Good. Everybody knows that when you serve Champagne you’re cookin’ with gas. A lot of these expensive brands like Dom Perignon are made in huge quantities. I saw Gatinois for sale on line for around $45. This is made from grand cru grapes in Ay. Gatinois sells most of their grapes to a neighbor. So if you can make and sell Champagne with grand cru grapes for that amount, a bottle made with similar costing grapes retailing for $145 is a Veblen Good!! With still wine, once you get past Mouton and Lafite, regular people just know they make wine in France.
Doug,
One time I had lunch with a grower in Lodi. He tried the same thing. Didn’t work!
So what you’re saying is you can’t recognize a Birkin when you see one?
I know I’m gonna regret this; what is the Arbor Mist thing you keep mentioning? Is it the current version of Boone’s Farm? Or is it like Falstaff and PBR so bad it actually cool?
ArborMist is probably closer to Boone s Farm than to PBR. Falstaff is cool?? I haven’t seen Falstaff since 1966.
That’s a funny list of names.
I suspect this is much more true than we know and the root of what I’m getting at. As Mel, funnily, pointed out above, “isn’t it the point of luxury brands to create Veblen goods?” It’s easy to identify some wines that are aimed at suckers who still aren’t wise to Edward Bernays’ teachings on social influencers and psychology in marketing.
I guess I want farmers and vintners to be successful–but I don’t want to be the dupe that is buying that wine that was marked up so certain buyers are interested. One easy way for me is to stay away from people/corporations that are luxury brands and give my money to smaller operations. That said, I was buying Outpost for years–and now with the sale, I don’t know if I’ll continue. I switched to Cimarossa and Riverain for my Howell Mt and Thomas Rivers Brown fix this year.
Neal, the counterfeit Vuitton and Gucci market begs to differ. I’d bet the much of our population still sees Donald Trump as the definition of luxury where most of us see him as garish and tawdry. I think you’re giving people too much credit. Funny that the same people own Vuitton as Dom and Krug; wonder why?
I’m still having trouble identifying a merkin when I see one.
Let me know what vintages of Gatinois can qualitatively even remotely compare to the same vintage of DP.
Josh,
To identify a merkin you have to get really close.
Re Constellation: let’s not forget they also own Ravenswood, Simi and Clos du Bois. First, anybody who makes zinfandel has a Veblen Bad on their hands. Second, both Simi and CDB have made some great wines. I took a 94 CDB Cabernet franc to a dinner at the Bay Wolf about five years ago. Blew everybody’s mind. Of course, they use barrels they bought from me so I might be a little prejudiced.
My point about Gatinois is that their production costs cannot be much different from DP, yet there is a nearly $100 price difference. DP uses barrels, I believe, but not that many new. That might add $3 or $4 to the final COGS. The wines are very different, as I recall.
They haven’t used barrels since 1964.
Not all Grand Cru vineyards and parcels/plots within those vineyards are equal, whether it be in Champagne or elsewhere.
I think part of it is that it takes capitol to be able to have inventory sitting sur lie for a decade. Not many independent producers had the finical wherewithal to do it. That’s changing. There are still plenty of négociant manipulant champagnes that aren’t owned by luxury goods companies, Comtes for example. While I would never put co-op Champagnes against the top négociant manipulant Champagnes, I would be willing to put my 1999 Ployez-Jacquemart Champagne Liesse d’Harbonville against your 1999 DP. Mostly though I just think it’s gross to give more money to LVMH, when they clearly think you’re an idiot that’s easily duped by marketing and social influencers.
I’m a fan of d’Harbonville and not a fan of '99 DP. You chose one of the worst vintages of DP to use as your example? And their release prices in the US were very similar. You willing to put it up against '99 Cristal? Or put up '96 d’Harbonville (which I like) against an also similarly US release priced '96 DP? DP is a terrible example for people to use in this thread. It is one of the top Champagnes nearly every year and has been very fairly priced for decades. And it lasts decades.
Where I was going is that many of the growers are fast improving and starting to lay down some of their prestige cuvees sur lie for the same amount of time as the huge houses. I think anything owned by LVMH is a perfect example for this thread. I’m sure LVMH is in it for the love of Champagne, (and they also have equal passion for fashion, purses, jewelry, cosmetics, cruise ships, watches, and perfume).
Fast improving and as quick or quicker in raising their prices.
What does Pierre Peters Chetillons - just as an example - cost these days compared to ten years ago?
I guess you can say that any Champagne house/Domaine/Chateau that sold to LVMH was also in it for the money? If you think the winemakers and others who work for LVMH properties aren’t passionate about their product and craft, I don’t know what else to say.
I think the owners pay more attention to their marketing departments than their vintners and growers. I think they share more in common with Luxottica than Pierre Peters.