Will the Yakima Valley AVA Ever Produce Wines that Rival Great Bordeaux Blends in Cali & France?

[john_stimson]

Syrah is a different kettle of fish. Not many people knew how to make Syrah early on in Washington, so many older wines were picked too late and vinified like cabs. Some still are. so it’s hard to fine good syrah from the 90’s (although last time I drank wine with Greg Harrington from gramercy, he mentioned that he was really liking some of the early Glen Fiona wines now. I think their first vintage might have been 98, and I may actually have a bottle). I bought Cristophe’s first vintage of syrah at Cayuse in 97, and bottles lately have been ok, but not anything remarkable.

[Gabe_Berk]

Just ordered some wines from today’s Force Majeure release. Jeb Dunnuck is a big fan hence the scores-been a fan too for the last 4 vintages. If he’s handing out these scores to First and Super 2nd Growths in Bordeaux AND in Washington, perhaps the Yakima AVA does produce wines that rival Bordeaux?

2016 SJR Vineyard Syrah 100 Pts
2016 Estate Cabernet 99 Pts “This brilliant wine needs to be forgotten for 4-5 years and will keep for 2-3 decades.”
2016 Tempranillo 97 Pts
2016 Epinette (right bank blend) 96 pts

[Josh_Grossman]

Just ordered some wines from today’s Force Majeure release. Jeb Dunnuck is a big fan hence the scores-been a fan too for the last 4 vintages. If he’s handing out these scores to First and Super 2nd Growths in Bordeaux AND in Washington, perhaps the Yakima AVA does produce wines that rival Bordeaux?

2016 SJR Vineyard Syrah 100 Pts
2016 Estate Cabernet 99 Pts “This brilliant wine needs to be forgotten for 4-5 years and will keep for 2-3 decades.”
2016 Tempranillo 97 Pts
2016 Epinette (right bank blend) 96 pts

I love their syrahs! Maybe the Cab I had was just a bad bottle.

[Mel_Knox]

Lettie Teague’s article about faking 82 Mouton with Andrew Will wines lends credence to the notion that wines from this region can excel.

[Jeb_Dunnuck]

The answer to this question is a resounding yes… although this is from Walla Walla, I’m going with close enough.

[Kris_Patten]

The answer to this question is a resounding yes… although this is from Walla Walla, I’m going with close enough.
Jeb Dunnuck on Instagram: "Not easy to stand beside an ‘82 Latour but the ‘86 Woodward Canyon did it with style... two brilliant wines."

Pretty sure the old WC Dedication Cabs were from Champoux and I can’t remember the other vineyard, Dionysus maybe. Champoux is firmly in Horse Heaven AVA.

[Jeb_Dunnuck]

The answer to this question is a resounding yes… although this is from Walla Walla, I’m going with close enough.
Jeb Dunnuck on Instagram: "Not easy to stand beside an ‘82 Latour but the ‘86 Woodward Canyon did it with style... two brilliant wines."

Pretty sure the old WC Dedication Cabs were from Champoux and I can’t remember ththe other vineyard, Dionysus maybe. Champoux is firmly in Horse Heaven AVA.

That’s a good point… I think they planted their estate vineyard in… mid 1970? I’ll reach out and try to see where this fruit came from. Also had a Merlot (close to the same age but I’m blanking on the vintage) from them at the same dinner that was brilliant as well.

[Kris_Patten]

The answer to this question is a resounding yes… although this is from Walla Walla, I’m going with close enough.
Jeb Dunnuck on Instagram: "Not easy to stand beside an ‘82 Latour but the ‘86 Woodward Canyon did it with style... two brilliant wines."

Pretty sure the old WC Dedication Cabs were from Champoux and I can’t remember ththe other vineyard, Dionysus maybe. Champoux is firmly in Horse Heaven AVA.

That’s a good point… I think they planted their estate vineyard in… mid 1970? I’ll reach out and try to see where this fruit came from. Also had a Merlot (close to the same age but I’m blanking on the vintage) from them at the same dinner that was brilliant as well.

We can agree Rick and team crafted some great wines that stand the test of time.

Kris

[Mel_Knox]

I looked at the question as ‘will eastern washington ever make…’…not will the yakima valley …my bad!
With all the fuss made over Red Mtn somebody should be doing something special. Offhand I like the Cadence Tapteil and the Q Creek Golitzine.

[brigcampbell]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

[brigcampbell]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

This is a steal at $55. Silly, really. It’d be 3x if it said Napa and wouldn’t be nearly as good. Maybe the best QPR ever

https://mailchi.mp/140674216eb7/jb-neufeld-old-goat-release?e=465944e290

2015 Old Goat
New Release: Our best wine yet
100% Cabernet Sauvignon and aged in 100% new French oak for 28 months. Rich, plush, and fruit driven. Made with the intention to cellar for maximum enjoyment.

198 cases produced. $55.00

Here’s my note from the 2014 goat, a cult wine killer.


2014 JB Neufeld Cabernet Sauvignon Old Goat - USA, Washington, Columbia Valley, Yakima Valley (1/27/2019)
Wow, this was paired up against a Schrader RBS and Dominus and there wasn’t a clear winner among the group. Impressive. Really beautiful wine which improved with 30 minutes of air, decant for best results. Ridiculous QPR
Posted from CellarTracker

[Robert.A.Jr]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

Was interesting to see that 86 Woodward at 13.2% and the 2014 Old Goat you linked at 15.3%.

That’s a huge spread on a bottle.

I’m guessing that 15%+ and extended aging in 100% new oak, and we are talking hedonistic new world stuff, yes? Not being critical, just asking.

[dave_kammerer]

Opened a 2006 Andrew Will Champoux Vineyard last night and it was excellent as a pnp. Very balanced, will see how the remaining wine holds up over the next few days.

[brigcampbell]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

Was interesting to see that 86 Woodward at 13.2% and the 2014 Old Goat you linked at 15.3%.

That’s a huge spread on a bottle.

I’m guessing that 15%+ and extended aging in 100% new oak, and we are talking hedonistic new world stuff, yes? Not being critical, just asking.

FYI - I pinged Brooke/Justin and hopefully they’re jump in.

I did not know the ABV and it certainly didn’t drink like a cocktail wine. It’s not in the style of QCreek or Cayuse. The Schrader was way more concentrated.

New world? you mean they didn’t use spinning cones, reverse osmosis and it is lacking Brett? yes.

[Greg_Smith]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

Just tried the 2015 JB Cab last night. Really impressive and actually drinking quite well right now. Will certainly age but I like my wines a bit on the young side. Will definitely buy again.

[Justin_Neufeld]

I have not had any recent vintages of Andrew Will, so cannot comment. But as noted above I have loved their wines from the 90s. I must say that I have not been that impressed with WA cab and cab blends either. The one recent exception was JB Neufeld – if I were buying WA cab blends to age that would be one of my top choices. Let us know what you think when you open any of the above!

And the “Old Goat” is amazing, they’re really doing a great job.

News Flash: for all that want to test the WA waters JB has participated in the last few Berserkerday events with wild enthusiasm.

Was interesting to see that 86 Woodward at 13.2% and the 2014 Old Goat you linked at 15.3%.

That’s a huge spread on a bottle.

I’m guessing that 15%+ and extended aging in 100% new oak, and we are talking hedonistic new world stuff, yes? Not being critical, just asking.

Hey Robert,
I would agree normally with your assumption that a wine, especially cab sauv, from anywhere in the new world with an alcohol of 15% and 100% new oak is likely going to be hedonistic. Bare in mind, a wine with 13.2% alcohol probably had a TA of 7-8g/L which, if tasted young, would be hard to swallow by todays standards. That much acid is why those wines can age, but if I made a wine with that much acid my career would be a short one. However, to give you my completely honest and biased opinion, I feel my wines are a good blend of old meets new. The original inspiration for my Old Goat was a 2005 Chateau Margaux I had back in the day. I’m actually going to start incorporating some Merlot into this wine with the 2019 vintage I think. Anyway, 2015 was a HOT vintage for WA, so we had higher alcohols than normal, but I have been dialing back my alcohol to be more in the 14.2%-14.5% range. The oak I use is a much lighter toast, so there isnt as much of an aromatic impact, its more structural on the palate. We are still learning so much about our AVAs in WA, I could ramble on quite a bit about all the variation we have in terroir just in the Yakima Valley alone. We are still so young, but we are learning quickly and I know we can rival the greatest Bordeaux varietals around the world. I was told that André Tchelistcheff said that one day, the worlds greatest Cabernet Sauvignon will come from Washington State. In the end, its just all about what you prefer, but I’m gonna go with André on this one

[Josh_Grossman]

I’ve found what I was looking for. Powers Horse Heaven Hills is a great wine at a $20 tariff. It’s composed of 78% Cab. The remainder is 11% Merlot, 8% Cab Franc, and 3% Petit Verdot, all from Champoux Vineyard, which they own. Two years in used French oak. This is the best sub $20 wine I’ve ever had.

[Steve_Costigan]

Saw this thread after I just pulled the cork on a 2007 DeLille Harrison Hill (4 out of 5). Gotta chime in that it’s consistently in the top 10, maybe top 5, cab blends in WA. It’s from the Snipes Mountain AVA but relevant as it’s in the middle of Yakima valley. It ages really well. Agree with earlier posts on the Woodward Canyon old vines. Previously had bottles at 24 and 26 years that were drinking beautifully.

[Josh_Grossman]

Thanks all!

As of now, thanks to the recommendations in this thread, I have:
2008 Cadence Ciel du Cheval Vineyard
2016 Upchurch Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon (today on Full Pull)
2016 Betz Heart of the Hill

(and already had)
2014 JB Neufeld Cabernet Sauvignon Two Blondes Vineyard

I’ve tried a handful of Andrew Will and it didn’t do it for me. In my opinion, I can find way better qpr in Bordeaux and Sonoma. I’m a bit biased against people making wine in Seattle and not near where the grapes are grown. How far is too far from the vineyard source? Could Andrew Will be in Cleveland? I’ve had wine, nearly as good, that was grown one county away from Cleveland.

I do buy Force Majeure/Sheridan Syrah/Rhone/Collaboration–and that is what actually prompted me to start this thread. I like their Syrah–and buy it almost every year, but the cab was a hot and oaky mess without enough acid to age. So far, for meritage blends, I like Betz Père de Famille and Clos de Betz and Woodward Canyon Cabernet Sauvignon Artist Series.

It seems to hold true on the cheap end too. I love Kiona Syrah but their Red Mountain Cab was swill. 2003 McCrea Syrah Ciel du Cheval Vineyard was one of the best QPR’s I’ve ever purchased. I did think the Powers AVA Collection Red Wine Horse Heaven Hills (Champoux Vineyard–78% Cabernet Sauvignon, 11% Merlot, 8% Cabernet Franc, and 3% Petit Verdot) was at least balanced and looking forward to seeing how it ages. I’ll keep trying. Thanks again for all the responses.

Just opened the 2008 Cadence Ciel du Cheval Red Mountain, and it’s a solid meh. It has the tannins and acid but not enough fruit for the long haul. On day two it’s even more meh. I’d have to think Ciel du Cheval is dropping fruit and doing things right? It just is thin and boring to me.

[john_stimson]

2008 is probably the last vintage i would choose to evaluate Washington wines. Hard as nails with sort of grumpy fruit, so don’t write off Cadence based upon that (if you have them, just wait. It’s sort of like owning 1975 Bordeaux). For Cadence, look for 2011.