Why is Oregon chardonnay so expensive?

[rfelthoven]

I predict we will be laughing at this thread topic in 5 years.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Rick Allen

@Howard Cooper

@Mel Knox

Howard,
With this year’s freeze those prices won’t last long. And when did Bourgogne Blanc and Bourgogne Rouge at $25 a bottle become a bargain. Somebody pointed out that the Six Million Dollar Man is now worth $30 million, so maybe I am behind the times. God knows what PYCM St Aubin will go for now…It seems just like yesterday it went for $20 and last year’s got delivered here for around $40.

I think that if somebody in Oregon could create a white Burgundy style Chardonnay for around $30, a lot of wine couldbe sold.

There are a lot of outstanding chardonnays from Burgundy (esp. if one includes Chablis and the Macon) for $30. The Oregon wine is going to have to be quite good. And, most likely, people who buy it will be converts from California Chardonnay, not from Burgundy. Very few American Chardonnays taste like they come from Burgundy. You can like them or dislike them, but they taste like different animals.

As for PYCM, his wines have really been a bargain for the quality of his wines, esp. the village level wines from Meursault and the St. Aubins. I hate to see the prices go up, but the wines are awfully good.

When did Bourgogne Blanc and Bourgogne Rouge at $25 become a bargain? Look, I wish I could still get them for $5 as I did when I was younger. But, a Dublere 2012 Bourgogne Blanc I had a couple of weeks ago was the best $20 Chardonnay I have had from anywhere in a long time. So, my answer is that this one was a bargain because it is better than any comparably priced wines I can buy TODAY.

So Howard, what you’re saying is that, to you, White Burgundy is still a bargain, and nothing compares, yet it sounds like you haven’t even tried any Oregon Chardonnays. If you haven’t tried something, how do you know?

We drink 3-4 bottles of Chardonnay a week, split about evenly between White Burgundy and Oregon Chardonnay (used to be all White Burgundy), and most everything we drink costs under $25. I find the two regions comparable for quality, taste, and value in this price range. When I move into Village and Premier Cru level wines, I find it difficult to continue to afford the White Burgundies in any kind of volume, but I can still afford the Oregon versions. Does Oregon have anything that approaches Grand Cru status? Nope, not yet. Remember that Lafon and Drouhin have had a big influence in Oregon Chardonnay over the last decade, and a number of Oregon winemakers took time in 2011 (late harvest in OR, early harvest in Burgundy) to work harvest in Burgundy before picking their own grapes. I suspect that with the current disaster in Burgundy, we’ll see a lot more of their winemakers over here this summer and fall.

Where did I say that I have never tried Oregon Chardonnay? I was not putting down Oregon wine, but just correcting posts about white Burgundy prices. They were misleading and far from accurate. I would not have been able to say that I think Oregon sales would come from California lovers rather than Burgundy lovers if I had never had any.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Richard T r i m p i

@Howard Cooper

Wow. You need to get out more. There is an awful lot of outstanding Bourgogne Blanc for $20-30. Got PYCM Bourgogne Blanc 2014 for $30 and 2012 Bourgogne Blanc from Dublere (which was wonderful) for $20. Could have bought a bunch of others including Carillon and Boillot in the same price range. Got village level PYCM (Meursault Narvaux) for $60. Your prices for Roulot are really not at all representative for what is out there for an awful lot of white Burgundy producers. It is like treating Harlan as reflective of California Cabernet prices.

True, getting out more would be good. I exercise outside approx. 10 hours per week…although that’s probably not what you meant.

Last Saturday I was perusing the shelves at Flatiron Wines and discussing White Burgundy. The shop is typically pretty good at directing buyers to fine QPR wines in the $10 - $40 range. There were approx 15 options under $40 and 2 that our knowledgeable sales helper felt comfortable recommending. Prices quickly shot above $50 for most, probably 80% of their White Burg inventory. You won’t see the same in OR stores selling OR Chards.

The Roulot prices are real…Wine-Searcher Pro. They weren’t like that 5+ years ago.

I still believe there’re very good White Burgs < $40, but go-to favs slide up and out of that range regularly.

RT

Every price I listed is current. Many of them are from here. http://bassins.com/wine/burgundy/2014-white-burgundy.php A really excellent store but not one known for below market pricing.

[Scott_Everson]

Vincent,

You’re an “alumni” of the SE Wine Collective?!? Knowing nothing about that place, and having never visited there, my uninformed notion was that is was a hipster doofus place making mostly swill. Again, I knew nothing, and heard nothing, but assumed urban winery in SE PDX = hipster doofus. Obviously I was completely wrong if you came outta there. Is there anyone else formerly or currently at SE Wine Collective to whom you’d like to give a shout out? Thanks.

[Scott_Brunson]

@Vincent Fritzsche

Chard grape prices have soared. If you have an estate vineyard, not so much of an issue. But either way you can’t crop too high, like the Pinot, then likely same barrel regime as the Pinot, maybe filtering where you might not filter the Reds so added cost. My point - it’s not like making the chard is so much cheaper. The market hasn’t been willing to go so high with it but that’s changing. Most production is still under $30, but honestly I’m happy to see people striving for greater things with chard, even if top end bottlings are going for more money. The wines in general are really worth while.

Disclosure - I make OR Chard but it’s only $23.

and that is 23 bucks well spent IMO

[Wes_Barton]

@Scott Everson

Vincent,

You’re an “alumni” of the SE Wine Collective?!? Knowing nothing about that place, and having never visited there, my uninformed notion was that is was a hipster doofus place making mostly swill. Again, I knew nothing, and heard nothing, but assumed urban winery in SE PDX = hipster doofus. Obviously I was completely wrong if you came outta there. Is there anyone else formerly or currently at SE Wine Collective to whom you’d like to give a shout out? Thanks.

I didn’t find it particularly hipster. I work in urban wineries. Advantages include lower cost and convenience. Consider winemakers who live in Portland, most having day jobs. Sharing capital equipment costs. Sharing crew and/or helping each other. Much better than driving down to McMinnville twice a day to do punch downs.

One corner of the place has a tasting room with small plates. Good for going with a small group and trying things. Quite a range of wines to try, from conventional to some uncommon varieties and styles. Maybe a little hip, but not annoying or doofussy. I’ll go back.

[Scott_Everson]

On my way to Great Wine Buys today to get one of their last four bottles of Vincent Chardonnay today ($23.99), I stopped by Fred Meyer since I thought they had Cameron WV chard. Roberta said they didn’t have any, but she sent me to New Seasons of all places, and I grabbed their last bottle of WV Cameron from the basement ($14.99), and incredibly they had Vincent chard too ($22.99). I think Liner & Elsen still has a few bottles ($21.99) as well. SE Wine Collective was all sold out.

I guess I’ll be having an Expensive Oregon Chardonnay taste-off pretty soon. It’s going to be in the 80s the next few days here, so good enough reason for me. Thanks for the advice.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

@Scott Everson

On my way to Great Wine Buys today to get one of their last four bottles of Vincent Chardonnay today ($23.99), I stopped by Fred Meyer since I thought they had Cameron WV chard. Roberta said they didn’t have any, but she sent me to New Seasons of all places, and I grabbed their last bottle of WV Cameron from the basement ($14.99), and incredibly they had Vincent chard too ($22.99). I think Liner & Elsen still has a few bottles ($21.99) as well. SE Wine Collective was all sold out.

I guess I’ll be having an Expensive Oregon Chardonnay taste-off pretty soon. It’s going to be in the 80s the next few days here, so good enough reason for me. Thanks for the advice.

Jumping in late to the thread, but just a couple of thoughts for wines to add to your tasting:

2 Chardonnays I like a lot are the Haden Fig Juliette & Eyrie Reserve, as well as the other usual suspects mentioned in the thread already.

I am releasing a WV bottling for the 2014 vintage later this summer at $24, so hopefully that will help with sticker shock.

Of the two 2013 Goodfellow Vineyard designates, the Durant Vineyard is $29 and I am really happy with it (open several hours ahead of time). The 2013 Richard’s Cuvée is $36, not cheap but it showed very well in a line up of 1er Cru White Burgs a month ago (PYCM, Roulot Bourgogne, Picq, and Carillon.) the bottle wants most of a day open or overnight to unwind.


As to comparable cost to Pinot Noir, it’s every bit the equal of the Pinot Noir in terms of cost and craft.

My Chardonnays are in barrel for 18-21 months depending upon vintage. So, as with Pinot Noir, I had to invest in 2 sets of cooperage, and my puncheons are €1250, the foudres €1800. The bottling costs and topping loss/expenses are identical, and Chardonnay fruit is sought after right now driving prices up. Also, while my cost for labor for cap management for PN is several hours per day, primary ferments for PN last weeks, while Chardonnay lasts months. I have two ferments still finishing out primary fermentation and none of the Chardonnay has gone through malo yet. So I am checking numbers and expending time and energy on whites, whiles reds have been sleeping for 6 months.

Have fun with the tasting and please post the notes!

[JPWilley]

@Scott Everson

As an aside, or to start the drift already, I recently learned about the Matello Whistling Ridge White (mercifully priced ~$20 or so). A co-fermented Riesling, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Noir, and Gewurztraminer sounds absolutely delicious!

It is insanely delicious. Killed off the last of a bottle last night with fondue while watching the radio Disney awards with my kids.

[JPWilley]

@Scott Everson

Vincent,

You’re an “alumni” of the SE Wine Collective?!? Knowing nothing about that place, and having never visited there, my uninformed notion was that is was a hipster doofus place making mostly swill. Again, I knew nothing, and heard nothing, but assumed urban winery in SE PDX = hipster doofus. Obviously I was completely wrong if you came outta there. Is there anyone else formerly or currently at SE Wine Collective to whom you’d like to give a shout out? Thanks.

SE Wine Collective has a number of excellent winemakers. My two favorite wines there from my trip last summer were the Welsh Family rose and the Helioterra Melon de Bourgogne. It’s a great stop for tastings and some nibbles.

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

I was at the SE Wine Collective for its first three years, with Division, Helioterra, Bow & Arrow (for a year) and Willful, then newer producers like Jackalope, Jasper Sisco, James Rahn, Fullerton, etc…, all worth checking out. Too close to pick favorites but definitely check out the tasting bar. They serve current producers and us old ones, and lots of wines from other local producers and around the world.

Definitely don’t write off urban wineries for the potential hipster factor. Some producers definitely have more profile than others but they’re all just real people making wine and have to fight a bit against that odd bias that wineries have to be in the country. It’s used to be that Napa had the wines and SF had the restaurants. But I hear there are a few producers in the city proper and apparently some decent food outlets in Napa valley. Rules can be broken!

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

The Helioterra Melon de Bourgogne is dynamite. Anne isn’t at SE Wine Collective anymore but her wines are excellent.
…a little strange to hear Vincent refer to himself as one of the old ones. It made me feel ancient, and guys like Jim Anderson and Todd Hamina sound like the mummy kings of the Willamette Valley

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

Old for the collective!!

But it’s true you’re a geezer Marcus.

[Todd_Hamina]

So long as I’m king of something I’m good.

[Scott_Everson]

Photos of those currently running the SE Wine Collective are frighteningly hipster, but I love Cadence and they’re pretty urban. Either way, I have to seriously respect any place who can claim to have sold the first legal growler of wine in America. That’s one of my wine dreams actually, to be able to roll up to a winery and have them fill my jug straight from one of their barrels.

[rfelthoven]

http://sewinecollective.com/about-us/thomas-monroe
http://sewinecollective.com/about-us/luke-mathews

You call those hipster?

[Jim_Anderson]

I want that cool, smooth bald head of that mummy dude in those Mummy movies. I mean if I’m going to get bald at some point I want it to look awesome. And super powers. I want those too.

Am I older than Marcus and Todd? I have no idea. I sure don’t act my age, whatever that means.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Ha! Jim, I know you have superpowers!

I don’t know that you’re older than me in years, but you are older in vine vintages.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

Marcus, in “curmudgeon years”, Jim’s got you shellacked!

RT

[Jim_Anderson]

@Richard T r i m p i

Marcus, in “curmudgeon years”, Jim’s got you shellacked!

RT

Get off my lawn!