Why is Louis Latour so bad?

[Dav1dZ]

@StevenB

@DavidZ

You could retitle this thread as “why are Morgeot whites so bad”? Morgeot should (mostly) be a Pinot vineyard based on terroir but producers have planted chardonnay there b/c C-M white sells for more than C-M red. C-M Morgeot should not be a 1er cru for chardonnay. I’ve never had a really good one, and I’ve had lots of bad ones. Flabby, indistinct.

There are lots of good white Morgeots. Tête du Clos from Vincent Dancer, Abbaye de Morgeot from Marchand-Tawse, the Vigne Blanche from Château de la Maltroye, the white Morgeot from Thomas Morey. All of those are neither flabby nor indistinct.

And as already said, Morgeot is a huge vineyard with lots of different parcels. Obviously there are better and worse locations for Chardonnay, respectively Pinot Noir.

I’ve had a couple of the above - the Maltroye and the T. Morey, and I stand by what I said. There is less good terroir in Morgeot than in dozens of village lieu dits.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Paul H Galli

@Scott Brunson

I agree with Don, Gerhard and Bill

And Scott…

TTT

I agree with …

\

• Paul

[Peter_Chiu]

@alan weinberg

@billnanson

Really Alan I think you have to taste more. LL reds are great before bottling, flat directly after, and then slowly get better - whether pasteurisation is to blame I don’t know, but I do know that I dont taste spoiled older bottles - no brett or off bottles, cork excepted. I taste the same week as Jadot etc. and the proposed gap for whites is non existent - both have peaks and troughs - neither is ‘better’

I stand with the marketplace in stating that Latour is a second or third rate Burg producer on no one’s short list and so much cheaper than other domaines for the same vineyards. I generally have to buy what I taste and have been burned enough by Latour that I will leave them for you and others. I never wrote that they were premoxed, corked, or spoiled, just that they were less than the pedigree should allow, underperforming. We can agree to disagree.

As burgundy lovers …we need to agree that we do have different preference, shouldn’t we ?

I used to prefer Rousseau before vintage 2002…but not anymore as I let other drink them for me .

If one prefers Louis Latour…he is lucky ( but patience is required )…

[Gerhard_P]

@DavidZ

…

I’ve had a couple of the above - the Maltroye and the T. Morey, and I stand by what I said. There is less good terroir in Morgeot than in dozens of village lieu dits.

I don´t 2nd that completely.
While Morgeot as a whole (app. 20 vineyards can chose this designation, incl. Boudriotte) is certainly better terroir for red than for white there are still some fine white bottlings, e.g. Ramonet Boudriotte, Gagnards Boudriotte, Drouhins Morgeot … Jadots Abbaye de Morgeot and Duc du Magenta Clos de la Chapelle … which are certainly better than the mean Village …

[Heath_Richardson]

not much experience with the brand, as negociants have never really interested me; > they take the personal element out of the mix vis a vis the artisanal makers.
But, the lesser whites used to be pretty appealing examples of good chardonnay, esp. on restauarant lists in the '80s and '90s in NY, where they were good values.

What Stuart said pretty much sums up my thoughts rather nicely. I got bitten by the bug recently , and have begun to study the wines from an educational perspective(WSG Burgundy Master level) as well as what’s in the bottle. I know LL is out there , as you can find the wines in any grocery store , and I can remember tasting through some of their line as a buyer and not being particularly impressed. I’m looking to explore the artisanally crafted wines especially at the village and 1er cru level , the only way I’d buy LL is if I can’t find any other representation of a specific village or 1er cru I’m looking to taste(which in Houston I doubt).

[Joshua_Kates]

Have a drunk a fair amount of the Latour C-C (offered as deals on WTSO) and I have to agree with Alan, Jay, and the other nay-sayers. No wow factor; flabby–I don’t happen to hate oak as much as many people here seem to, but sometimes too much of that. For the money (@$50 US, if I recall) can’t complain, but there’s a reason, methinks, that they go for so low, the producer being far from unknown.Could, btw, be a factor of when the wines were produced; compared to more seasoned hands here, all of those I’ve tasted have been from '06 on.

[Scott_Butler]

@Gerhard P.

@Scott Butler

I am not happy with this thread. My wife wanted to get me a bottle of Pinot for our 10 year and a wine friend strongly suggested this. I don’t drink much Burg but was excited to open it somewhere down the line.

If I read correctly vintage 2012 ?

This shouldn´t be a bad wine … but I doubt it will be ready at age 10y, better with 20 years!

Thanks for the note, I am happy to hold it for 20 years if that will make it show it’s best. Thanks

[Jay_Miller]

Never had a young Latour that I liked but I did have a red from the '70s about 10 years ago which had turned into something very enjoyable. Don’t recall what it was but it was at one of the Peter Pratts dinners so anyone with Squires board access might be able to find my notes.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Mark B

I know this has been grazed in the body of previous threads, but I feel this is deserving of its own thread. As you probably know, anyone who drinks Burgundy isn’t going to rank Louis Latour anywhere near the top when it comes to quality producers. Time and time again, I’m just disappointed with what this producer has to offer at their various price points. I had some friends over this evening for what I thought was going to be a killer bottle of 1er Cru Chassagne-Montrachet. While the wine was decent and enjoyable, it was lacking in both character, focus, and charm. The fact that this wine is a 1er, to me, is a total joke. I hate to bash these guys, but at some point you just have to call an underwhelming/poor QPR for what it is. I paid $25 for that bottle. I feel sorry for anyone who paid more. I’m really curious as to others’ thoughts on this producer. I know I’m making a broad statement over a single bottle, but this is not the first time I’ve been burned by good ol’ Louis.

I don’t drink that much Latour but I have found Latour WHITES to be decent values for the price. Certainly, their wines are much cheaper for their appellation than other wines of the same appellation and deserve to be.

When you buy a wine for $25, you really should not be disappointed to find that it does not taste like a $75 wine. If you took out the name of the vineyard, how was the wine for a $25 Chardonnay.

[Gerhard_P]

@Howard Cooper

… If you took out the name of the vineyard, how was the wine for a $25 Chardonnay.

This is a good one … !!!

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

If I wanted to take out the name of the vineyard or the appellation, I wouldn’t pay a third of that for an anonymous chardonnay. Why bother. There’s no need to.

[Dav1dZ]

@Gerhard P.

@DavidZ

…

I’ve had a couple of the above - the Maltroye and the T. Morey, and I stand by what I said. There is less good terroir in Morgeot than in dozens of village lieu dits.

I don´t 2nd that completely.
While Morgeot as a whole (app. 20 vineyards can chose this designation, incl. Boudriotte) is certainly better terroir for red than for white there are still some fine white bottlings, e.g. Ramonet Boudriotte, Gagnards Boudriotte, Drouhins Morgeot … Jadots Abbaye de Morgeot and Duc du Magenta Clos de la Chapelle … which are certainly better than the mean Village …

Talk about your red herring. That’s like saying that Chambertin is good because Beze can be labeled as Chambertin. Boudriotte is a nice vineyard but it’s not morgeot. I’ve had a bunch of those Drouhin and Jadot morgeots and they suffer from severe Morgeot-itis in most vintages. Morgeot is like the Corton of whites.

[RichardFlack]

@Howard, Gerhard: So this is an argument against terroir?

[Gerhard_P]

@RichardFlack

@Howard, Gerhard: So this is an argument against terroir?

No - simple facts - I didn´t invent it …
(and in this case also kind of marketing strategy … it seemes to be easier to sell a Chassagne-M. “Morgeot” or “Boudriottes” than a “Ez Crottes” or “Clos Chareau” … )
The question is also: how different are all these climats actually in reality … ?

[Robert_Sand]

Some old Louis Latours can be really fine, especially the Chateau Corton Grancey and Chambertin, but the usual offerings are not very interesting, however also not expensive.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

I had a 2013 Louis Latour Mâcon-Lugny Les Genièvres this evening at a seminar on EMV Chip Fraud Protection. I would not call it “bad.” It was interesting with some fruit at the front of the palate but got bitter at the back end. I would say 85 points. Above average for industry seminars or large weddings.

[Gerhard_P]

@J a y H a c k

… I would say 85 points. Above average for industry seminars or large weddings.

85 points is good to very good in my understanding.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

@Gerhard P.

@J a y H a c k

… I would say 85 points. Above average for industry seminars or large weddings.

85 points is good to very good in my understanding.

Sorry, but I never considered being a B student as being at the high end of good moving into very good. I think 85 is a synonym for good, which is a reasonable description of the wine. It had some back palate bitterness that I did not like, but the overall impression of the wine was positive.

[CFu]

@J a y H a c k

@Gerhard P.

@J a y H a c k

… I would say 85 points. Above average for industry seminars or large weddings.

85 points is good to very good in my understanding.

Sorry, but I never considered being a B student as being at the high end of good moving into very good. I think 85 is a synonym for good, which is a reasonable description of the wine. It had some back palate bitterness that I did not like, but the overall impression of the wine was positive.

B is for beating in chinese communities.

[R_Gilbane]

Tough way to learn your A,B,C’s.