Why Is It Important for a Region to have a Signature Grape??

[Kyle_Schlachter]

@c fu

@Kyle Schlachter

@Joe B

You can’t be special unless there is only one true grape that flourishes in that area.

I wonder when that up-and-coming Châteauneuf-du-Pape place will catch on…

But Grenache is the signature grape for CDP isn’t it? It’s the dominate grape in all the blends and in some with the top producers it’s the only grape. According to wiki, 72% of the area is Grenache vines.

Yes, but I don’t think dominates in the way Cabernet Sauvignon dominates Napa red wines. The idea that CdP and even Bordeaux have dominate varieties is a bit misleading. Both are blends by nature. In may cases Cab and Grenache dominate, but at least according to US labeling law, they may often not be able to be labeled varietally because they may not reach 75% of the blend…

[BobMilton]

@c fu

@Kyle Schlachter

@Joe B

You can’t be special unless there is only one true grape that flourishes in that area.

I wonder when that up-and-coming Châteauneuf-du-Pape place will catch on…

But Grenache is the signature grape for CDP isn’t it? It’s the dominate grape in all the blends and in some with the top producers it’s the only grape. According to wiki, 72% of the area is Grenache vines.

I thought de Beaucastle was primarily Mourvedre. Did I get that wrong?

[CFu]

@BobMilton

@c fu

@Kyle Schlachter

I wonder when that up-and-coming Châteauneuf-du-Pape place will catch on…

But Grenache is the signature grape for CDP isn’t it? It’s the dominate grape in all the blends and in some with the top producers it’s the only grape. According to wiki, 72% of the area is Grenache vines.

I thought de Beaucastle was primarily Mourvedre. Did I get that wrong?

i think that it’s close proportions of grenache/Mourvedre.

[MattBerto]

The French, Germans, Italians, and Spanish have spent a couple hundred years growing grapes for wine, and each have found that certain grapes work better in certain areas. Of course you CAN grow a lot of different grapes in a lot of different areas, (exhibit A: Minnesota), but to paraphrase Chris Rock, “Just cause you can do it, doesn’t mean it’s to be done”. Until you find something that really excels there, or at least produces a unique (and good) profile, you’re just growing grapes in spot because you can.

[Michael_Martin]

@MBerto

The French, Germans, Italians, and Spanish have spent a couple hundred years growing grapes for wine, and each have found that certain grapes work better in certain areas. Of course you CAN grow a lot of different grapes in a lot of different areas, (exhibit A: Minnesota), but to paraphrase Chris Rock, “Just cause you can do it, doesn’t mean it’s to be done”. Until you find something that really excels there, or at least produces a unique (and good) profile, you’re just growing grapes in spot because you can.

Read “Wine & War”, some of Europe’s most famous regions like Burgundy are last century reinventions.

[Markus_S]

@GregT

…And outside of Asimov, how many people, even on this board, have ever heard of Finger Lakes Cab Franc, much less tasted any?

Hey, c’mon. No need to demean us New Yorkers. We get enough crap from the rest of the red states.

[RichardFlack]

I’d say that an emerging region needs to fashion an identity. So when people see the strange label they have an idea what it is. Equally, if they are seeking a particular style of wine, there’s a better chance may think of this region. Style may be built on a specific grape, or it may be a blend. It’s not just a grape. Think dry Riesling vs sweet. Claret vs Cab Sauv.
I think of this as analogous to primary flavours in young wine.

As a region evolves additional styles may achieve prominence. Like secondary flavours.

(Of course pioneers will be trying all sorts of things to see what works but I think the OP here is mainly referring to dominant grapes/styles that get the marketing push)

Established regions may well have multiple styles.

[jbray23]

Relate this to restaurants…

Typically a restaurant has a signature dish, it is lock step with its identity, it’s the same for wine growing regions, without that identity where would Oregon be?

Whenever I do public tastings the first association with a region is the grape, not the style or winery… ‘oh, Oregon does amazing Pinot but the Chardonnay isn’t as good as California…’ for example

[Rory_K]

To Asimov’s point, ‘success’ seems to be a sales based term, and in that case a clear identity with which to market a region’s wines is essential. The difference between old and new world for this is huge, old world regions had centuries or more to develop their identity with much different (and slower moving market forces), compared to the US at least, where you need to establish yourself in the market quickly. While we geeks could argue that Sonoma’s diversity is delightful, Napa has been more “successful” with its narrower reputation.

[Gerhard_P]

At lot of what´s written above is true …

Another point: to have success it is necessary to produce high quality wine(s) …

A certain region with a specific terroir and climate is usually ideal for a specific variety (or maybe two v.)

In Bordeaux it´s CS (left bank) and Merlot (right bank),
in Burgundy Pinot noir (red) and Chardonnay (white), in the Northern Rhone Syrah (and Viognier),
in Wachau (Austria) Riesling and Grüner Veltliner,
in Burgenland (Austria) Blaufränkisch and Zweigelt (red),
in Styria (Steiermark/Austria) Sauvignon blanc and Morillon (=Chardonnay),
Piemont → Nebbiolo …
and so on.

I very much doubt that planting CS in the Côte d´Or would lead to very high quality wines,
and (seriously) Zweigelt and Pinot noir in Styria produce nice drinking wines, but nothing really great, while the SBs and Morillons here can be world-class … a question of soil and climate …

… and if the varieties match the terroir you´ll also get a typical character of wine … which is also important for success …

[larry_schaffer]

@Michael Martin

@larry schaffer

One key word - marketing. Diversity appears to be a wonderful thing, but it is difficult to ‘market’ diversity - believe me, I know this firsthand with SB County.

If you haaaaaaaad to pick one grape for SB, what would it be?

Well - since you asked, I guess it must be Mourvedre based on the buzz coming out of this area for certain producers of it

When I was on the board of the Vintner’s Association here, we tried to start a campaign who’s message was ‘Diversity Perfected’- SB County is truly ‘unique’ in that our soils and micro-climates allow for such a plethora of varieties to not only be planted here, but to truly produce world class wines here. I’ve always felt that our little county was as diverse as Sonoma County - just much more compact.

It truly is a marketing challenge to the general consumer - and an economic challenge for growers who ultimately need to make money and can’t ‘afford’ to plant a lot of ‘cool’ things that don’t pay the bills . . .

Cheers.

[GregT]

… and if the varieties match the terroir you´ll also get a typical character of wine … which is also important for success …

Except that there are about ten varieties that are commonly planted, and four dominate - Cab, Merlot, and Chardonnay and these days maybe Pinot Noir too.

There are hundreds of varieties that could be used and that could make great wine if tried, but who would buy the wine? In the US, and I suppose elsewhere as well, region is almost irrelevant. If you’re talking about what’s important for success, I’d much rather own Meiomi, which gets grapes from I don’t know where but was apparently worth some 300 million dollars for generic sweet Pinot Noir, than I would something like a nice Trousseau label.

I’d rather drink the latter, but selling it would be a bitch. It’s why I admire guys like Larry for doing what he’s doing. But slap Pinot Noir or Cabernet Sauvignon on a label and it’s going to be a lot easier to sell than some region or grape people don’t know.

[Anton_D]

The nerdier one gets, the less ‘single signature regional grape’ seems to apply.

[Gerhard_P]

@GregT

… and if the varieties match the terroir you´ll also get a typical character of wine … which is also important for success …

Except that there are about ten varieties that are commonly planted, and four dominate - Cab, Merlot, and Chardonnay and these days maybe Pinot Noir too.

There are hundreds of varieties that could be used and that could make great wine if tried, but who would buy the wine? In the US, and I suppose elsewhere as well, region is almost irrelevant. If you’re talking about what’s important for success, I’d much rather own Meiomi, which gets grapes from I don’t know where but was apparently worth some 300 million dollars for generic sweet Pinot Noir, than I would something like a nice Trousseau label.

I’d rather drink the latter, but selling it would be a bitch. It’s why I admire guys like Larry for doing what he’s doing. But slap Pinot Noir or Cabernet Sauvignon on a label and it’s going to be a lot easier to sell than some region or grape people don’t know.

OK, if you mean US people are “special” … I got it!

I haven´t seen written on the labels:
Cabernet Sauvignon on Mouton-R …
Merlot on Petrus …
Pinot-Noir on La Tâche …
Syrah on La Mouline …
Grenache on Rayas …
Nebbiolo on Sori Tildin …
Chardonnay on any Montrachet …

… but maybe it´s a mistake - and it would sell better …

[Blake_Brown]

@Michael Martin

@larry schaffer

One key word - marketing. Diversity appears to be a wonderful thing, but it is difficult to ‘market’ diversity - believe me, I know this firsthand with SB County.

If you haaaaaaaad to pick one grape for SB, what would it be?

I did not see an answer to this so Ill throw in my 2 cents: Pinot Noir Not only for the various micro climates that support it, but the Sideways effect. Threes also a history that supports Pinot more than other varietals. So, this answer covers both the site [terrior] and the marketing aspects after re-reading it.

[Wes_Barton]

@dsGriswold

A good number of years ago when we were wine tripping out in the Dundee Hills, we paid a visit to Erath when Dick still owned the winery and tasted the wines where a Dolcetto impressed me much more than the Pinot Noir so bought a few. Several years later stopped by and they said Dick pulled all the Dolcetto vines, probably did not sell too well in pinot country. Syrah is starting to make inroads in the valley.

That’s what’s upsetting. I understand consumer demand for something they can easily understand, giving us commodity-wines. I certainly understand going with success - like, CF can excel some places where most other well known red varieties fail. I even understand abandoning a good wine you can’t sell. But, having the means to play around with different varieties, having the scale where it might actually make sense to model in some price discrimination… There can be room for, or even a need for, tasting room-only wines or club-only wines.

[Michael_Martin]

@Blake Brown

@Michael Martin

@larry schaffer

One key word - marketing. Diversity appears to be a wonderful thing, but it is difficult to ‘market’ diversity - believe me, I know this firsthand with SB County.

If you haaaaaaaad to pick one grape for SB, what would it be?

I did not see an answer to this so Ill throw in my 2 cents: Pinot Noir Not only for the various micro climates that support it, but the Sideways effect. Threes also a history that supports Pinot more than other varietals. So, this answer covers both the site [terrior] and the marketing aspects after re-reading it.

See post #31.

[Wes_Barton]

@Mel Knox

Instead of signature grape maybe one should say signature wine.

I think that a region needs critical mass.
Napa and Bordeaux have lots of famous wineries. Santa Barbara could use more.
Long Island has a long ways to go in this department

Yes, I think that’s on point. When a region is established for great wine, a subset of consumers will then be more open to the idea some of the more esoteric wines from there can also be good. Go to Napa because it’s Napa. Go to the Heitz tasting room because of their reputation. Buy some bottles of their Grignolino as part of your purchase because you tasted it and it’s damned good. Same person seeing it on a store shelf would probably ignore it.

What I saw in Oregon in the '90s was a local market for Germanic whites - much more so than here. Many local producers made them, and grocery stores like Fred Meyer had a notable section for those plus imports from Germany and Alsace. That seems to have faded away, while the quality and quantity of Pinot exploded. Now that seems be be somewhat saturated, and there’s a new generation of pioneering winemakers looking for their own niches, looking back to Germanic whites, trying new varieties and sourcing from Washington and southern Oregon. The wineries in the south are getting broader respect for doing their own thing, as they have all along.

But… most of the most exciting wines being made in Oregon are sold in the Oregon market Consumer awareness of quality and accessibility have driven up consumption. But, that doesn’t translate to the awareness of non-locals that would translate to sales for those niche wines outside of their greater region.

[Mel_Knox]

The French talk about emerging wine regions needing a locomotive. When cote Rotie was not famous, Guigal was the locomotive.

[Kyle_Schlachter]

@Mel Knox

The French talk about emerging wine regions needing a locomotive. When cote Rotie was not famous, Guigal was the locomotive.

Great metaphor. Mondavi was California (and specifically Napa)'s locomotive.