If the ‘x program’ is some level of reasonably substantial good food I think the risk is less. When wine shop/bar after wine shop/bar around here closed in 2008-2010 it was the larger ones and the smaller ones that served some food that made it through. Not that the ‘restaurant’ business is easy, but at that time I think people were reluctant to spend maybe $40 or so to taste and then spend another $75+ somewhere else for dinner. Wine tasting plus small plates together made more sense.
we have a small wine bar/vinyl shop near us. we like it quite a bit.
one thing they have done to help their business is maintaining retail sales along with the “wine bar” and they also have a “wine club” where people sign up and buy 4 bottles of wine each month. not sure of the member count, but that is a good steady cash flow for them, plus keeps inventory moving.
Good point. We had no luck trying to start up a wine club in 2006-2008 but the people who bought our shop began that model in around 2010 and it is very successful today. Also… at that point in time, we did quite a bit of business in on line wine sales, but that (I think) is more problematic today.
I read an article in Wine & Spirits years ago about an emerging model of wine shop + wine bar. You could buy BTG wines at the wine bar, or walk “next door” (through an arch) to the wine shop and buy a bottle to pop in the bar for a flat fee (~$15).
The incentive to buy pricier bottles at a 50% mark-up in the shop (+$15 corkage fee) was more enticing than buying a fancy wine at 100% mark-up in a standard restaurant.
I thought that this was brilliant! I mentioned it to a local wine rep, and he told me that our competition was in the midst of building such a place nearby.
8 years later, the Wine Country Bistro & Bottle Shop of Shreveport, Louisiana, is still alive and kicking.
The wine shop/wine bar model has been around California for a long time (20 years or more). As I said above, it too a major hit during the recession, but most of the ones that made it had a third component - food.
I also think having some board games might encourage people to say longer and spend more.
Adding food brings a whole lot more regulation.
-Al
I would visit & interview owners of successful wine bars in different places. Perhaps none close to where you are thinking of opening one so you get honest answers. Learning from others, particularly those who are successful will help. Who knows, perhaps one will become your mentor.
Here in Portland, Oregon Wines on Broadway has a few elements that others have noted above that likely have contributed to its being open a while now. While others have come and gone since. They are only open noon-8pm!
From their website.
We pour the best selection of Oregon Pinot Noir by the taste, the glass, the flight or the bottle. We sell bottles to go, ship wine all over, serve small plates to accompany your tasting and have a personalized wine club.
– They only sell Oregon wines primarily pinot noir (36 choices, vs 4-8 whites)
– They have a small bottle shop
– They sell charcuterie & cheese & bread to pair with your wine
– They offer some beer too (my take is a group of people might stay longer if one member prefers beer)
– They are on a busy downtown street within easy walking distance of many hotels & employers & shopping (location matters)
That’s true, but it could be the difference between success and failure.
One more thing… if the location is one where people walk by with children there’s the issue (as in California) where a retail and tasting license combo requires that no one under 21 be allowed. If you can get a restaurant or ‘general eating place’ license, people can bring their kids in with them. In some scenarios that can make a big difference for bottle sales.
If you have at least one other strong sales person, you will rip through a bottle of something BTG per night.
I think adding the word “wine” in front of the word “bar” automatically limits your audience, and you alienate those that want a great beer or cocktail. If you create an up scale, classy bar that has an excellent wine program (thus allowing for a full menu), the concept absolutely works. Clients willing to go to an upscale location with drinks that are above the normal market price (but also not super sky high either) will naturally be a more sophisticated client. Their is a place fairly close to my house that is killing it with this concept (it is a restaurant, but the bar scene is where it’s really at), and while the wine program has done fine so far, they are succeeding selling Lebanese wine and Finger Lakes Riesling by the glass, not an easy task for any suburban area of the country, NJ or not.
Curious Mark if you feel there’s a real opening in Chicago - or are you considering elsewhere? I’m not sure what’s around but there seem to be so many good bars already. I also noticed a big push in Food & Wine magazine for a new-to-me-at-least - wine bar The Lunatic, Lover and Poet in the West Loop but it looks like it hasn’t opened?
What about taking that idea one step further and have a wine truck that follows gathering of food trucks? You would need air conditioned storage for the truck, but you would be moving the product to the people and in theory only be paying for labor during a time you should have good traffic.
That should make for a very interesting discussion with the Alcoholic Beverage Control department here in California which requires a specific location for licensing. I LIKE the idea, but those folks may lack sufficient creativity to embrace the concept. As far as I know they won’t issue a license to a movable vehicle.
Interesting. They do issue licenses to temporary events like concerts on a lawn, or art shows in the street. But maybe you would have for a separate license for each stop you make which would no doubt be a PITA. Are there physical requirements to be met for any location getting a license?
The wine/beer license requires a specific physical address and, depending on local jurisdiction, sometimes has quirky rules imposed imposing physical separation if it’s within a larger space where you want people under 21 to be able to go. I know of one wine shop that moved one space over in a building so they had to get a new license and go through the whole qualification process again. Because of the address requirement, renting space can be tricky as you usually have to include a condition that your lease is voided if something beyond your own control keeps you from getting the license. While they DP issue day licenses, I think food trucks (though a REALLY good idea) are highly problematic for lots of reasons. At least in California.
The reason why you need a specific physical location for an alcohol license is that you have to give notice to the neighbors about the pending application so they can object (if they so desire) or request conditions to the license, etc. I think it’s fair to say that some locations for a wine bar might be much less desirable to the neighbors than others.
Of course, there’s the “beer bike” in San Diego, but you can’t drink on board the group bike:
http://socialcyclesd.com/index.php
Bruce
Maria’s on 31st allows food to be brought in, normally from Pleasant House, which also happens to be BYO (B, not F).
Sorry - late to this party…
Service - I much prefer to speak with someone who pours, who knows about what is being poured (and more than just what’s on a table-tent / shelf-talker), who I can generously tip who’ll remember me and my preferences, and may just let me have a sip of something new they think I may enjoy without having to pay for it.
Value - I dropped out of a wine club because even with my “discount”, I saw the same bottles sold at Costco for 20% less than my best price. I am (or try to be) educated in this arena.
Intrigue - I’m a simple guy that has learned / been introduced to a ton via this site. I really would rather not go and spend dollars to a bar for “run the middle of the mill road” juice.
Evolve - Change it up a bit. Please. Ok, really please.
Location is truly foundational in the hospitality industry but can be overlooked if the service is great, the value rocks, and the selection is legit.
Respectfully -
MFH
Partners stealing from each other
Whatever happened to the OP? He always posted interesting stuff. I think we scared him off when he posted pics of his drunk friends.