I like John’s snarky comments on Bond wine. Someone asks about the different options and once again he adds no relevance . More whining about money/value. John, give it a rest and stick to the WTSO thread, where you add value .
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Bruce, can you modify your post? By quoting me, looks like you are responding and commenting to and about me. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think that’s your intent. Thanks.
Done, hopefully to your satisfaction, sorry about that (was not my intention).
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John,
That is a new challenge here - now you’re talking ‘price to decent’ ratio . . .and that’s a slippery slope. Some in here would make the argument that some producers who make wines >$100 offer a style that overrides individuality and that all of their wines are ‘similar’ and undistinguishable from each other. And yet because that ‘style’ is preferred, it’s okay.
I understand where you are coming from, but ‘enjoyment’ and ‘ratings’ are so friggin subjective so it will always be ‘YMMV’ . . .
Well tell that to the church police lurking about…
I understand where you are coming from, but ‘enjoyment’ and ‘ratings’ are so friggin subjective so it will always be ‘YMMV’ . . .
Agree and if people like Orin Swift wines buy them. I used to buy way more wine when I was doing big corporate tastings and could write off my reviews but now most of my money is going into golf so I am probably more critical of wines over $40 that don’t work for my palate.
And I am right. And you are right, And all is right, as right can be!
It’s not that we are wine snobs who think our little home on the inter-web should drive the market. It’s that we wonder about the critics who pretend to be discerning yet rate swill as highly as plonk.
It’s like thinking gruel is as good as thin porridge.
![[berserker.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/8600bbd4810d342b8fbd4ffb62b4f0026275fd37.gif "berserker"){kind=small}
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Are you being censored? Is anyone?
Or are some folks butthurt because they don’t get 100% agreement for their taste preferences?
Thanks for the school play memories!
Not talking about censorship per se, but people can be up in arms in applying morality standards if it is an opinion disagreed with.
Freaking nailed it.
It’s virtue signaling for wine snobs.
Give the OP a pat on the back and tell him taste is oh so sophisticated.
Next.
As Robert pointed out you sure have done a lot of calling out with your 121 posts. If someone likes the wines as I stated earlier drink them, if someone wants to spend $700 on Bond then buy it. I am sure I am not the only one who does not like the style of these wines as people have stated in this thread. If you are going to bash people at least use your full name. Joseph W…?
LOL. Get over yourself
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No as commenting on someone putting down wines is not the same thing as putting down wines to try to appeal as a wine snob. There is a difference between critiquing a so-called critic and enjoying the topic of the criticism. In order for any comment to take place the original ‘snobbery’ had to be posted.
If one makes a thread like this they by default open themselves up to comments on it. I don’t see how commenting on the OP which the post invited is the same thing as creating it.
Who said I’m not enjoying the place? Don’t put words in my mouth.
Would you tell me the appropriate post count and user id necessary for critiquing your premise? Do your posts make more sense to read after I’ve scrolled through X amount as I become desensitized to them or something?
So you’re free to critique wines as harshly as you want but you can’t handle a little bit of criticism? ![[whistle.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/87d24eb81ec6dc01d84f3d6c19fa9a357e90218e.gif "whistle"){kind=small}
I would like to turn the conversation over to a story. I am not precisely a wine snob, although my favorite wines are from Burgundy, but, at one point, like all wine snobs, if there are no bottles of Puligny Montrachet or Chambolle Musigny around, one embraces the other stuff. As for me, wine berserkers, although I have a second home on the mainland, I once found myself house sitting an estate on Captiva Island, Florida, an offshore location separated from the mainland by a toll bridge and a single lane road that is often jammed with tourist traffic. Settling down to a daily rhythm that emphasized absolute calm and the desire to paint and read, it is no surprise that I quickly gave up the weekly forays to Total Wine on the mainland 30 miles away. With just two local grocery shops with wine on the island, choices were limited. Just a short drive away was the famous Bailey’s general store on the adjoining Sanibel Island, with a friendly staff and a larger selection of foods and wines. “Orin Swift Wines” displays were prominently positioned in the wine department, I remarked immediately. “We love OS wines,” said the spunky young wine buyer to me. So I engaged in an experiment: I bought and consumed only OS wines for the remainder of my stay on Captiva. “To be able to discriminate is already a sign of decadence. It is then that one decidedly looks for beauty in wine. Why not do away with that for a while? Take it easy for once! Let somebody else choose my wine for me.” I thought. I will omit the detailed description of these wretched wines. One detail, however, became clear to me: My friends really liked them. “Where ever did you get this delicious wine? You weren’t buying wine like this on the mainland. I remember you were always serving up this very austere, serious wine in the past.” I heard from a friend as he was preparing to cut and hack into a T-bone steak I had just grilled. And how strange I felt when I said to him: “Oh I just go to Bailey’s. They have a whole slew of these OS wines on display. The wine buyer certainly knows her clientele.” Then another guest screamed out after a taste of another OS wine: “Blessed holy mackerel, this wine is so tasty!” To which I said: “Yes, and they are so easy to find here, just go to the grocery store, and they are there waiting for you. That wine buyer really knows what we want!” I am proud to say that, once my stay on Captiva Island was over, so was this experiment. What I liked about this experiment was its simplicity: always buy wine from the same producer, no matter how you judge its merits. Drink through it, and take note: this is the enemy of humankind.
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I was at this particular NY wine experience. When the 14 Machete was presented, no one booed, no one trashed it. Maybe the wines have changed. I recall thinking the Prisoner was OK about 10 years ago, ditto on The Abstract. What I’ve noticed are the price increases. Many of the wines are up >50% in the last few years.
I haven’t really had the wines in 5 years or so. When we went to the tasting room we thought the best of the wines was the Mannequin. My wife liked it and her favorite wines are PYCM Chassagne chards and delicate Gevrey burgs. I don’t think the wine is awful but I also haven’t had it since it was sold to Gallo.
I am not sure why there is any expectation that self appointed critics would have a better palate than anyone else. Almost all of them began writing for some small blog or newsletter; the better ones prevail.
Those who like Orin Swift wines have a clear point of view; it is certainly not mine, and is certainly not that of many people on this board. Equally there are people who love the wines.
The question is whether not liking these wines is some form of elitism. Sorry, the answer is yes, it is clearly elitist There are of course no objective criteria for wine quality, so frankly how we dare we say these wines are inferior? If you like Retsina and turn your nose up at Lafite, so what?
I can’t tell you what to like and what not to like. The only answer, if you can’t taste the wines, is to find someone whose taste you trust to make your buying decisions. If your taste runs to Orin Swift, then you know who to look for.
I have become more tolerant and hopefully a little more self aware with time. Some time ago I tasted SQN for the first time and compared it unfavorably to the blueberry pomegranate smoothie Macdonald’s brought out one Summer. Of course there were people who loved my comments and many who hated them. But what was most troubling was the undercurrent that liking or not liking something was an indictment of people’s character, taste etc, and I was unprepared how defensive it made people. I was talking about the wine not the drinker, but clearly there was an extension here which I did not expect.
Threads like this now make me uncomfortable. This is a wine board, where we should be able to be inclusive enough to listen respectfully to people’s likes and dislikes without necessarily agreeing with them.
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I think an apt analogy is art.
People on here posting about Orin swift is like an art critic denigrating mass market art in a hotel room. Maybe you don’t like it, but it’s not meant for you.
Regarding the SQN thing, I do think there’s a certain amount of intolerance there; that’s like saying you only like Impressionist art but think Jackson Pollock is garbage. I feel like you have to evaluate the wine (and art) based on the creator’s intent and how well they achieve their goals even if it isn’t something you aren’t personally seeking out to purchase or display.
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