Why are wine coolers so expensive and unreliable

[Chris_Seiber]

@J. Migone

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to make a really well insulated room and just hook it up to an independent AC unit with temperature control?

First, you have to have a spare room you don’t need for anything else, and second, you can’t take that arrangement with you if you move. You also need to insulate it and probably do something about the humidity (though I personally think the humidity issue with wine storage, like most things about perfect wine storage, is overrated), then build in racking and all.

Beyond that, I don’t know how much more or less reliable a wine storage room is than a cabinet. Probably more reliable, but I don’t really know. It’s aesthetically nice if you have the room and the budget to make a nice one, that’s for sure.

[Peter_Kleban]

@Chris Seiber

There must be some engineering / physics reason why a wine storage cabinet is inherently so much less durable and less reliable than a refrigerator or freezer.

Yes. I think it’s called “profit.”

[Peter_Kleban]

Come to think of it, is there some simple way to “doctor” an ordinary fridge so it only cools into the 50s? After all, that’s not much different than the usual operating temperature.

[C_Mc_Cart]

@John Flanagan

@Dennis Kanagie

@J. Migone

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to make a really well insulated room and just hook it up to an independent AC unit with temperature control?

We’ve had posts on that before…just didn’t feel like searching them. The real question is how reliable would that AC unit work? You’d also want a humidifier to go along with it.

Four years ago I built a cellar in my garage (read: insulated wood box). It’s a little less than 400 cu ft. Stuck a $90 window AC unit in it, which vents directly into my garage. In summer when the garage gets to be 90-100F, the cellar is around 52F. In winter when the garage is 40-50F, the cellar is around 58F. Humidity is 50-70% without a humidifier. I’m amazed by that little AC unit. Best part is that if it ever dies I can run to Home Depot, buy a new one for $90, and pop it in the cellar.

To it’s own credit, my Breezaire unit in my wine cabinet has had only one $250 repair in the 8+ years I’ve had it. But considering it costs 8 times as much as the window AC unit it’s definitely no bargain.

John, I’ve considered this, as I have a garage that isn’t used for cars and wouldn’t mind 1 large cellar instead my passive crawlspace cellar and large stand-alone. I worry more about the winter as my garage gets down to almost freezing.
1 question - how does your cellar go up in temp in the winter when the garage is cooler?

[Dennis_Kanagie]

@C. Mc Cart

@John Flanagan

Four years ago I built a cellar in my garage (read: insulated wood box). It’s a little less than 400 cu ft. Stuck a $90 window AC unit in it, which vents directly into my garage. In summer when the garage gets to be 90-100F, the cellar is around 52F. In winter when the garage is 40-50F, the cellar is around 58F. Humidity is 50-70% without a humidifier. I’m amazed by that little AC unit. Best part is that if it ever dies I can run to Home Depot, buy a new one for $90, and pop it in the cellar.

To it’s own credit, my Breezaire unit in my wine cabinet has had only one $250 repair in the 8+ years I’ve had it. But considering it costs 8 times as much as the window AC unit it’s definitely no bargain.

John, I’ve considered this, as I have a garage that isn’t used for cars and wouldn’t mind 1 large cellar instead my passive crawlspace cellar and large stand-alone. I worry more about the winter as my garage gets down to almost freezing.
1 question - how does your cellar go up in temp in the winter when the garage is cooler?

We’re going to convert the back half of our garage into a wine cellar since we don’t use it for vehicles either… well, other than the beast of a snow blower. I’m interested to know how the temperature goes up also - do you shut down the AC unit and just let the fact that it’s indoors and insulated control the inside temperature?

[Chris_Seiber]

@Peter Kleban

@Chris Seiber

There must be some engineering / physics reason why a wine storage cabinet is inherently so much less durable and less reliable than a refrigerator or freezer.

Yes. I think it’s called “profit.”

Really, profit should dictate the opposite result. If you could offer a wine storage cabinet with a 10 year warranty, how many of them would you sell?

As to the converted fridge question, I think there are many that you could adjust to a higher temperature. You would have almost zero humidity, if humidity is something you consider important in wine storage (the conventional wisdom is that you should, I’m less sure of it myself but don’t really know for certain), and refrigerators aren’t really designed for bottle storage so you’d have to figure out how to make efficient use of the interior.

[Dennis_Kanagie]

Chris, I think it’s best to have 50% humidity or more to keep corks from drying out.

[John_Morris]

@J. Migone

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to make a really well insulated room and just hook it up to an independent AC unit with temperature control?

A room takes up a lot more space, and if you hire a contractor to install insulated walls and doors, etc., it gets expensive. And AC to chill a whole room has to be a lot bigger than the unit for a cave.

[John_Morris]

@Dennis Kanagie

Chris, I think it’s best to have 50% humidity or more to keep corks from drying out.

That accepted wisdom has been called into question. As I recall, the upshot of other discussions here was that, if the bottles are on their side, it’s unlikely that sound corks will dry out enough to be an issue.

[J_Migone]

@John Morris

@J. Migone

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to make a really well insulated room and just hook it up to an independent AC unit with temperature control?

A room takes up a lot more space, and if you hire a contractor to install insulated walls and doors, etc., it gets expensive. And AC to chill a whole room has to be a lot bigger than the unit for a cave.

All true. This would only apply to those who plan on building a little wine mancave. I think an AC unit would be more reliable, cheaper and easily replaced in those circumstances. I think some of the high end wall units even come with humidity control.

[John_Morris]

I wasn’t thinking of a man cave. I was just thinking that you can’t build a wall, insulated on all sides, including the door, and install AC for $2,000, even without embellishments. And I think it would take a lot more BTUs to cool the same number of bottles in a room, so the operating expenses would be higher.

[David_Wright]

@Peter Kleban

Come to think of it, is there some simple way to “doctor” an ordinary fridge so it only cools into the 50s? After all, that’s not much different than the usual operating temperature.

The home-brew beer guys use external thermostats like this one:
http://www.brewinternational.com/refrigerator-or-freezer-thermostat-analogtemperature-controller/

There are claims that vibrations from an ordinary fridge are not good for wine (prevent sediment from settling, etc.), but I’m not aware of any rigorous attmpts to evaluate that in a modern refrigerator.

[John_Flanagan]

@Dennis Kanagie

@C. Mc Cart

@John Flanagan

Four years ago I built a cellar in my garage (read: insulated wood box). It’s a little less than 400 cu ft. Stuck a $90 window AC unit in it, which vents directly into my garage. In summer when the garage gets to be 90-100F, the cellar is around 52F. In winter when the garage is 40-50F, the cellar is around 58F. Humidity is 50-70% without a humidifier. I’m amazed by that little AC unit. Best part is that if it ever dies I can run to Home Depot, buy a new one for $90, and pop it in the cellar.

To it’s own credit, my Breezaire unit in my wine cabinet has had only one $250 repair in the 8+ years I’ve had it. But considering it costs 8 times as much as the window AC unit it’s definitely no bargain.

John, I’ve considered this, as I have a garage that isn’t used for cars and wouldn’t mind 1 large cellar instead my passive crawlspace cellar and large stand-alone. I worry more about the winter as my garage gets down to almost freezing.
1 question - how does your cellar go up in temp in the winter when the garage is cooler?

We’re going to convert the back half of our garage into a wine cellar since we don’t use it for vehicles either… well, other than the beast of a snow blower. I’m interested to know how the temperature goes up also - do you shut down the AC unit and just let the fact that it’s indoors and insulated control the inside temperature?

The AC unit is on all the time. One reason I thought of is that the insulation surrounding the unit, and therefore the thermistor in the front of the unit, from the outside isn’t perfect so in the summer the heat in the garage seeps in around the unit and kicks it on even if the middle of the cellar is at 55F, thereby dropping the temp of the cellar further. In the winter the opposite is true: the garage is colder than the middle of the cellar and keeps the unit from turning on even if the cellar warms a bit.

Either way I have 52-56F year round.

[Dennis_Kanagie]

@John Flanagan

The AC unit is on all the time. One reason I thought of is that the insulation surrounding the unit, and therefore the thermistor in the front of the unit, from the outside isn’t perfect so in the summer the heat in the garage seeps in around the unit and kicks it on even if the middle of the cellar is at 55F, thereby dropping the temp of the cellar further. In the winter the opposite is true: the garage is colder than the middle of the cellar and keeps the unit from turning on even if the cellar warms a bit.

Okay, makes sense. Gotta look into small units like you use once the room is built.

@John Flanagan

Either way I have 52-56F year round.

Nice. I’m looking for 55˚ to 59˚ so you might have given a great money saving suggestion. The caves wine is/was stored in change temperature too, so a few degrees is fine by me.

[Thomas_Concilio]

My personal observation of all appliances is that they tend to fail around the 7 year mark. And it doesn’t matter on the brand. My opinion is that that the manufacturers can’t make enough profit over the long haul if they make more reliable (and more expensive) appliances. It’s just a factor of the ROI.

So, I just buy the best value at the time and know I will be replacing it in 7 years. Don’t like it, but what can you do.

[Dennis_Kanagie]

@Thomas Concilio

My personal observation of all appliances is that they tend to fail around the 7 year mark. And it doesn’t matter on the brand. My opinion is that that the manufacturers can’t make enough profit over the long haul if they make more reliable (and more expensive) appliances. It’s just a factor of the ROI.

So, I just buy the best value at the time and know I will be replacing it in 7 years. Don’t like it, but what can you do.

You’re referring to “engineered obsolescence”. There are better brands that are still made for the long haul. For instance, Maytag is a step above most other washers and dryers. Back in the day I worked for Silo and got to see the guts of several brands, and the Maytag was overbuilt in comparison. Yes, that doesn’t translate to wine refrigerators - it was just an example.

[John_Morris]

@Thomas Concilio

My personal observation of all appliances is that they tend to fail around the 7 year mark. And it doesn’t matter on the brand. My opinion is that that the manufacturers can’t make enough profit over the long haul if they make more reliable (and more expensive) appliances. It’s just a factor of the ROI.

So, I just buy the best value at the time and know I will be replacing it in 7 years. Don’t like it, but what can you do.

Sounds like you had bad luck. My Amana refrigerator lasted 15 years plus. My GE stove went almost 20 and could have been repaired but I wanted to upgrade. I have a Magic Chef (GE) dishwasher that’s 30+ years and won’t die. I had two of the same model in prior apartments that lasted a similar length of time. My little wine fridge burned out its compressor at five years but has run another 16 years since I replaced that.

[Sean_Malloy]

@Kyle Schlachter

I always found Bartles & Jaymes to be consistent and inexpensive…

Damn. I just saw this thread and wanted to make this joke, but knew it would already be taken.

[Thomas_Concilio]

@John Morris

@Thomas Concilio

My personal observation of all appliances is that they tend to fail around the 7 year mark. And it doesn’t matter on the brand. My opinion is that that the manufacturers can’t make enough profit over the long haul if they make more reliable (and more expensive) appliances. It’s just a factor of the ROI.

So, I just buy the best value at the time and know I will be replacing it in 7 years. Don’t like it, but what can you do.

Sounds like you had bad luck. My Amana refrigerator lasted 15 years plus. My GE stove went almost 20 and could have been repaired but I wanted to upgrade. I have a Magic Chef (GE) dishwasher that’s 30+ years and won’t die. I had two of the same model in prior apartments that lasted a similar length of time. My little wine fridge burned out its compressor at five years but has run another 16 years since I replaced that.

Maybe so, but I’ve replace my dishwasher (after repairing twice), stand alone refrigerator, and need to replace my dual oven (only one works, repaired once). All were purchased in 2006. The three different repairmen all said I was lucky they lasted that long. Sigh…I wouldn’t mind paying a little more if they just lasted. Maybe one day I will get lucky and find one that will last for the long haul. Like my wife.

[John_Morris]

I will say that the Bosch refrigerator I bought circa 2008 (a) cooked its circuit board in about four years and (b) the icemaker broke before that. (It’s a terrible appliance – inefficient in its use of space, can’t adjust shelves for recorked wine bottles, and the heat dissipation panel on front gets hot.)