There are some characteristics that are typical for given sites, but they are not universal for all bottlings from the site. Urziger Wurzgarten often has a touch of strawberry. I often find a lemon cream note in Wehlener Sonnenuhr. Erdner Treppchen consistently shows an herbal touch for me. There are others, but I bet different folks would take issue with my thoughts.
First off you don’t pay Clos Vougeot pricing for Wehlener Sonnenuhr. Secondly there are very different types of wine made from different plots of the WS vineyard. Clos Vougeot makes one thing.
So what? How are those germain to the topic? I was responding to Russell’s point that the vineyard is very large, with more and less desirable parts – something CV is famous for – so the analogy seems quite close.
S.A.Prum makes some good versions. Part of the original estate which got split up among the family.
More or less desirable for what? Kabinett? Auslese?
The 05’s from PC were good for the money but not stunning.
Do you contend that all parts of WS are excellent, just for different levels of wine?
I contend that none of it is bad, and that each area has different strengths. I can more reliably get good Wehlener Sonnenuhr by throwing a dart than Piesporter Goldtropfchen.
Can’t believe no one mentioned Weins-Prum. Until recently the best producer of WS wines not named Prum.
Agreed, some are just better than others. There are no wines in WS I wouldn’t drink, there are definitely some in Clos Vougeot, especially when price comes into play.
Right. If Clos Vougeot was available at Wehlener Sonnenuhr prices we probably would not mind the inconsistency.
I don’t care as much for the style, maybe the very sweet wines excepted. WS production was so much lower than JJ Prum. (Also in my case they aren’t imported to the U.K.).
What I meant about not applying Burgundian mindset is that one can’t really just think ‘I like this producer, I like this vineyard’ and expect fireworks. Relatively few producers have vines outside of their main village plus the neighbouring two. Perhaps more importantly the vineyards are all so much bigger, so many producers only make wines in 3 named vineyards. Of course they then make different Pradikat wines, and in some cases different bottlings from sub holdings within the vineyards.
Of course pricing is also a different matter, relatively and absolutely.
Molitor, Loosen and Lieser the most obvious exceptions (though there are more!) and I only care for the latter of those. How Thomas Haag maintains quality over such large holdings so far apart is hugely impressive.
Just my opinion.
This thread made me pull an 07 Selbach Oster W-S kabinett to go with supper tonight, a caraway crusted slab of pork that had been absorbing its rub for a couple of days. On the wine, I get green apples, citrus, and just the right balance between sweet & tangy here. It’s still holding some acid too. For my tastes, kabinett level wines are probably my favorite. I love the minerally vibrancy of these, and the bottle was finished up by the end of the meal. A- in my ledger. The SO doesn’t normally like offdry wines, but this is one she enjoyed, although she felt it clashed with the sauerkraut.
Pork with a crispy caraway crust. After it finished cooking, I drained the fat, then tossed some leftover rigatoni in the meaty pan drippings til they were golden. Not pictured are the bohemian bread dumplings & sauerkraut (token vegetable).
My #2 choice after JJ Prum would be Loosen or Schaefer. #3: Schloss Lieser. I also like Wegeler, they’re rarely mentioned here. Kerpen might not be in the same league but it’s a lot of bang for the buck, worth trying.
CellarTracker shows 129 producers with Wehlener Sonnenuhr wines for a total of 82,132 bottles. Top 10 producers:
Joh. Jos. Prüm 72.3% Bottles (59,387)
Dr. Loosen 6.0% Bottles (4,888)
Markus Molitor 3.7% Bottles (3,065)
Kerpen 2.5% Bottles (2,031)
Selbach-Oster 2.0% Bottles (1,657)
Weingut Max Ferd. Richter 1.9% Bottles (1,586)
S.A. Prüm 1.7% Bottles (1,435)
Dr. F. Weins-Prüm 1.5% Bottles (1,267)
Schloss Lieser 1.5% Bottles (1,201)
Willi Schaefer 1.2% Bottles (969)
Prum, Prum and Prum ! But as the question was put as ‘not JJ Prum’ I note that we recently had the Loosen WS Kabinett from 2018. It was young but simply delicious at this embryonic stage. Its inexpensive and in Oz is under screw-cap so it will age forever if it gets the chance. A perfect sailing wine.
The best Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling other than by Joh. Jos. Prüm I’ve drunk was by Jos. Christoffel Jr. KaJo Christoffel is more known for his Ürziger Würzgarten, Erdener Treppchen and Erdener Prälat, but also has or had a tiny holding of Wehlener Sonnenuhr. If you ever see an older ***, **** or ***** Auslese, it’s a must buy. The 1976 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese ***** from Christoffel Jun. is a legendary Riesling. Apart from that, I think Max Ferd. Richter is the best source of Wehlener Sonnenuhr. For Lieser it’s too early to tell, but so far I liked the wines. I’m not a fan of the Loosen, Molitor, Kerpen and S.A. Prüm and Willi Schaefer WeSo is indeed hit and miss.
StevenB—thanks for this. I confess that Christoffel is a producer I don’t have any experience with.
As a quick follow up on Lieser: according to this review/article from MSW, they have about 1 hectare in WS, but only acquired the vines in 2015. So quite new to the site.
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+1
This is really fantastic in a very subtle and refined way
The 2001 Willi Schaefer W-S Kabinett was absolutely stunning last year. That was my last bottle, but it certainly didn’t seem in any danger of dropping off. I agree that his best wines are from Graacher Domprost (and Himmelreich, to a lesser degree) but I would definitely snap up any WS bottlings I saw from Schaefer.