Who Is #2 Behind DRC?

WINE TALK
#21

That is a good point. Dujac also seems less vulnerable to those ugly closed periods.

#22

To me it more likely means Rousseau has poor vineyard sites for the bottom half of his portfolio.

#23

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just to confirm, you mean that within, say clos de la roche, rousseau’s part isn’t that good?

if so, that’s interesting and certainly would explain it – or at least part of it.

and to be clear, i include the following in this category for rousseau, but i’m sure some would disagree:

clos de la roche
charmes-chambertin
mazis-chambertin
lavaux st. jacques 1er
cazetieres 1er
gevrey village (is it fair to include this?)

#24

In a nutshell. My impression is that recent Dujac vintages will not be so immune from closure, but will be even more interesting wines. I like Rousseau but not more than most of the above named producers. I’m very uninterested in putting things in order, though, preferring to enjoy these marvellous wines without overly concerning myself with my opinions.

#25

Spectator says it is true.

#26

LOL, I should have included it in the poll I guess. Dang, such an oversight!

#27

It’s much more important to rank them in order then simply enjoy them. [cheers.gif]

Tom Blach said “I’m very uninterested in putting things in order, though, preferring to enjoy these marvellous wines without overly concerning myself with my opinions.”

#28

I assume you don’t have a beef with the Ruchottes, right. I love it! And, I really like the '01 CDL to.

#29

So far…
2. Leroy
3. Rousseau
4. Dujac
5. Roumier
6. Mugnier

The Leroys are top notch wines but the ones I’ve had seemed a big large and overdone for my palate. But, I’m a fan of Mugnier’s 02 basic Chambolle Musigny which was given 80pts by a friend of mine at offline because he thought it too lean. Two people can see a wine in much different lights.

#30

I’m always surprised by the great popularity of Mugnier-not that they aren’t fantastic wines, but, apart from the village Chambolle, which represents a kind of platonic ideal of Chambolle which I don’t think actually exists elsewhere, the wines in my (not enormous but not negligible either)experience are simply never ready-possibly even more never ready than Gouges.

#31

OK then-the ones I love with passion from this list rather than simply admire.


Bachelet, Barthod, Fourrier, Clavelier, Lamarche, Gouges, Drouhin, Jadot, Lafarge, Ponsot.

Hasn’t narrowed it down much!

#32

If only Bachelet had the broader holdings of Leroy or Dujac, I would imagine that it would be up near the peak. Bachelet makes perfect examples of every appellation it produces: for my money, among the best bourgogne, cote de nuits villages, gevrey AOC, gevrey corbeaux, charmes chambertin. As it stands, Bachelet has 0 votes. Get the man some Clos de Beze!

In terms of the question at issue, I can’t answer due to lack of experience with many of the producers on the list (including DRC and Leroy), but I would be quite content drinking Dujac, Bachelet, Mugneret-Gibourg, D’Angerville, Fourrier, Drouhin, and Jadot all day. Those are in rough, rough order–but among such stars, I’d rather not be forced to choose.

#33

I’m not in the Mugnier cult for different reasons, but the thing to remember is that when people bow at that altar they’re talking almost exclusively about the wines made in the last 10 years or so - and you wouldn’t expect those to be ready for a long time anyway.

#34

Agree DRC no contest #1. Then, close call between Leroy and Mugnier. I have more experience with older Leroy which I love and have not had a lot of recent ones. Recent experiences with Mugnier are wonderful, so will give my nod to him.

#35

to be clear, i don’t have a beef with any of them and enjoy them when i get to drink them. just that when looking at the list above, i’d never pick Rousseau’s version as tops.

and i really like the clos ruchottes.

#36

that really is a fascinating short list.

#37

Mike,

Your comments are of great importance when it comes to polls about who is the best burgundy producer.

Even if one has the money and time, it is a daunting task indeed to assemble and taste enough examples of all the revered producers to properly answer this poll. Life is not perfect, so I do not criticize the poll itself. To make matters worse- given how finicky the weather and grape varietals of burgundy are, and also the fact one must judge producers against each other for wines of the same name- I do not think there is quite the potential for a “right” objective answer here as there might be for Bordeaux or Napa, to give two examples.

My first choice in the original poll was DRC. In this poll it was Roumier. I have TNs in the 100s for each Domaine- and I could pick 20 wines of each to convince someone that either Domaine is beyond words or overrated. It would be easier for Roumier than for DRC- and just as much driven by the age at which wines are presented as by quality. It is not just enough to buy the label- one has to know that these wines go through stages when they are very difficult to appreciate. Even the “off vintages” are like this. Just to give one example, those who waited and gave 1992 DRC RSV a chance were handsomely rewarded. It was a lovely wine with 10 years of age even though the 1992s were rather disappointing at release.

Leroy has been so expensive and hard to obtain the last 10 years that I find it improbable that more than a handful of wine tasters could cast an educated vote on the wines in a poll like this. If anyone is insisting on numbers, let’s say an “educated” vote should cover 100+ TNs over at least 10 years for wines that were between release and 20 years of age when tasted.

There is also the question of integrity when it comes to presenting burgundies. Leroy is a great winemaker, no doubt, but I have SERIOUS concerns about what I believe to be old stocks of Noellat released under the Leroy label. It is perfectly legal, but in a world where one pays more for name than for vineyard, is it really proper? This is a valid question to ask in a poll like this- and the primary reason why I would never submit Leroy for a “best producer” vote. I have had more than a few older late-release Leroy wines, and they vary enormously in quality (from nice to otherworldly)- though at least the asking price is a clue as to what to expect.

As for Rousseau- I have no issues with the “lower end” of his portfolio. For whatever reason, his Chambertin and Clos de Beze show very well at all stages of life and are very in your face- the latter of which is a legitimate trait of a great Chambertin or Clos de Beze. The rest need more time and are more subtle wines. They are just as good in my opinion. And, FWIW, Rousseau is one of the masters of creating an enjoyable wine in an off-vintage that is also reflective of that vintage. Only DRC and Angerville compete with him there IMHO. Leroy perhaps as well, but more because her muscular style overrides vintage, which in and of itself should be a concern for true purists. I was duly impressed when I tried the 1994 Leroy Richebourg at release, but these days I find I would rather go for DRC, Rousseau or Angerville in an “off vintage” (or Roumier for that matter- his 94 Chambolle was quite the nice surprise last year.)

#38

I, too, picked Roumier. I didn’t give it a whole lot of thought, just reacted. Dujac is up there, too, but for consistency and quality and just a gut feel, I went with Roumier.
alan

#39

I picked Leroy, and would have picked Roumier 3rd.

FWIW, I spoke to someone in Gevrey (who has a social significance in Gevrey) who thinks Rousseau could be making better wines if he did more in the cellar. I think that’s where the parody lies in his portfolio of wines.

I personally think Mugnier is making stunning wines, but he doesn’t have a consensus amongst some Burg people I know. Bachelet is also another fave, but agree that his lack of breadth of a portfolio probably hinders his inclusion. Arnoux is making outrageous wines, but he needs to get real about his prices. Especially on the lower end wines. I think he would get more votes if this wasn’t the case.

I’m a huge Lamarche fan, excited to see them even included, let alone someone voting for them! Clearly someone who tasted the 08s and 09s!

#40

Leroy for me and not necessarily behind DRC.