Which wine for roast veal in a mild Madeira sauce and cassis?

[rfelthoven]

Any reason why John gets to be the judge on each recommendation ? Do you cook John and what do you do to balance out savory dishes that lean sweet?

[John_Morris]

@ron felthoven

Any reason why John gets to be the judge on each recommendation ? Do you cook John and what do you do to balance out savory dishes that lean sweet?

Because I’m a self-appointed arbiter of taste and I was pained at the thought of some of the suggestions.

I do cook and I care a lot about wine-food matches, because when they wrong the have the potential to make one or the other or both taste lousy.

There are no absolute rules but, like I said above, with dishes that lean sweet, I think it’s safest to go with something relatively low in acid and high in fruit. It all depends on the level of sweetness, but the mixture of madeira and cassis (presumably the fruit syrup, not blackcurrants themselves) made me think an acidic wine would be risky here. And tannic wines like nebbiolo and young cabernet do well with protein and fat, or charred things (broiled meats, roast potatoes), so I didn’t see those working here. A mature cab with softened tannins might work, though.

If this were just a reduction with some madeira, the latitude for the wine matches would be much wider, I think.

[mike_pobega]

roast veal in a mild Madeira sauce and cassis.

Easy, a mature Bordeaux or that CdP you speak of. Mild sauce on veal and mashed! Yum–sounds like a great time. Enjoy the evening!

[drsugarman]

Dolcetto

[dcornutt]

2001 Lynch Bages. That would be perfect to me as long as the Madeira sauce isn’t too strong. The cassis will really marry with this bottle.

[Howard_Cooper]

@John Morris

@Howard Cooper

For things a bit out of your norm, how about either (picking wines I think MacArthurs has) Ridge Santa Cruz Cabernet, Produtorri Barbaresco (or Oddero Barolo if you want something older) or Chateau Pibarnon. In fact, I like the idea of the Bandol.

Bandol, I get. But a tannic cabernet or nebbiolo with potentially sweetish sauce? It make me cringe.

I don’t think of something like Ridge SC as having a lot of tannin. I think of it as more showing a lot of fruit. The nebbiolo also would have a lot of fruit to stand up to the richness of the dish. One reason I suggested Oddero is that you can get a 1996 for not that much money.

[Howard_Cooper]

@John Morris

@ron felthoven

Any reason why John gets to be the judge on each recommendation ? Do you cook John and what do you do to balance out savory dishes that lean sweet?

Because I’m a self-appointed arbiter of taste and I was pained at the thought of some of the suggestions.

I do cook and I care a lot about wine-food matches, because when they wrong the have the potential to make one or the other or both taste lousy.

There are no absolute rules but, like I said above, with dishes that lean sweet, I think it’s safest to go with something relatively low in acid and high in fruit. It all depends on the level of sweetness, but the mixture of madeira and cassis (presumably the fruit syrup, not blackcurrants themselves) made me think an acidic wine would be risky here. And tannic wines like nebbiolo and young cabernet do well with protein and fat, or charred things (broiled meats, roast potatoes), so I didn’t see those working here. A mature cab with softened tannins might work, though.

If this were just a reduction with some madeira, the latitude for the wine matches would be much wider, I think.

If you go with a sweet dish with a low acid wine don’t you just get flabby? I agree with you on the need for fruit, but fruit with at least some acid. i guess I just am rarely a fan of low acid wines.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Eric Ifune

If you want to be daring, a dry riesling from Alsace or Austria.

What about a richer not so dry wine from Alsace, like a Zind Humbrecht Pinot Gris.

[Panos_Kakaviatos]

Many, many thanks for the helpful suggestions, and the spirited discussion on how best to balance food with wine. My sister clarified something in the meantime, stressing that the recipe only calls for a “bit of Madeira to plump up the currants” while the sauce will be mainly pan juices from the roast… so I guess the sweetness factor is no longer such an issue. I think I will go for the Clos des Papes 1999 on this one. Although I liked the Bandol suggestion, if only because while organizing my wines for a new Eurocave cellar, I saw that I had a few more bottles of Pibarnon 2001 than I thought I had.

[John_Morris]

@Howard Cooper

If you go with a sweet dish with a low acid wine don’t you just get flabby? I agree with you on the need for fruit, but fruit with at least some acid. i guess I just am rarely a fan of low acid wines.

I’m with you on that, and I agree you wouldn’t want a flabby wine. What I said was you don’t want a wine with “conspicuous” acid, like a barbera. I think the wine will show very badly if the sauce were sweet.

But Panos’ amended description makes this all a LOT easier. Currants usually are tart themselves, unlike cassis syrup, so my fears of disaster are unfounded.

Never mind, as they say.

[Randall_McFarlane]

A CdP, Bordeaux or CaliCab ought to work well, Panos.

[rfelthoven]

I know this ship has sailed, but a couple of quick points…I’m sure most of you are aware of the book, but a good read on food and wine pairing is “What to Drink with what you’re Eating”. You can look up a food and find wines that match or look up a wine and find foods that are classic pairings. The book entertains all kind of pairing strategies, from pairing like wines with like foods (say, big spicy foods with big spicy wines) or going for contrast (e.g., tart wines with sweet dishes). It does list Bojo (and Bordeaux) as a good match for veal, and under under Barbera, it lists veal as classic pairing (no mention of the madeira, however, which does change things). No mention of CdP and veal, btw.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

I could see an aged CdP working well, but not a young one.

For “just veal,” I’d stick with light-to-medium bodied Italian reds.

[John_Morris]

@ron felthoven

It does list Bojo (and Bordeaux) as a good match for veal, and under under Barbera, it lists veal as classic pairing (no mention of the madeira, however, which does change things). No mention of CdP and veal, btw.

I’ll have to track it down.

In this case, the sauce seemed to be the thing to work around, not the unadorned meat.

[Andrew_Demaree]

@Panos Kakaviatos

Many, many thanks for the helpful suggestions, and the spirited discussion on how best to balance food with wine. My sister clarified something in the meantime, stressing that the recipe only calls for a “bit of Madeira to plump up the currants” while the sauce will be mainly pan juices from the roast… so I guess the sweetness factor is no longer such an issue. I think I will go for the Clos des Papes 1999 on this one. Although I liked the Bandol suggestion, if only because while organizing my wines for a new Eurocave cellar, I saw that I had a few more bottles of Pibarnon 2001 than I thought I had.

I don’t think you’ll regret that choice. Do let us know how it works out.

[C_h_r_i_s_B_e_r_n_s_e_n]

@Truett W e l c h

@C h r i s B e r n s e n

2009 Bojo Cru - will stand up to the sauce and will work well, as always, with the pork.

But what about the veal? Actually, I find veal and some cuts of pork very interchangeable in pairing wines.

Meant veal