Which Loire Whites are you drinking?

[Yule_Kim]

What about Couley Dutheil?

I’ve never had Couly Doutheil or the Dagueneau cuvee you mentioned above.

Where do you think they would slot in compared to others?

Also, my Opening Post isn’t really meant to be an authoritative or exhaustive list, just a spark for discussion. I left off a ton of interesting producers who deserve discussion and consideration.

[Marc_Frontario]

The Asteroid I believe is considered a step up from the Silex

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Yummmm!

[MaciejK]

I am on a Chenin roll, all recent bottles delivered in spades: Bernaudeau, Roches Neuves l’Echelier, Yvonne, Batardiere, Roucas Toumba (a Chenin dominant blend from Vacqueyras bottled in Riesling bottles!), this …
Not much of a nose after the initial funk blew off, wet dog. Rich, concentrated. Traces of oxidation. Citrus fruit, quince, a trace of (acacia?)honey, ginger, something vegetal. Lively acidity, massive mineral core peeking through here and there. A lasting finish.
A big wine, obviously too young, time will tame it.

[MadsW]

Love Sansonniere when it’s on!

Ferme de la Sansonniere - Fouchardes 2009
Honey and marzipan.
Hot summer in the Loire and therefore a decent level of residual sugar. The acidity is stepping back a little and I’m wondering how long I can keep these, so I’m going to drink up. My favorites must still be the more recent vintages.

[TGibson]

I don’t have experience with Mark Angeli’s wines with age but they seem like they would be best when young-ish. 2002 La Lune was my introduction to that style. So good.

[MadsW]

I agree with you.
They also swing wildly in style from year to year in my opinion. When it’s on it’s on though

[Yule_Kim]

Glad to see this thread revived. Here’s some recent TNs:

• 2021 Didier Dagueneau (Louis Benjamin Dagueneau) XXI - France, Loire Valley, Vin de France (6/15/2024)
  Very subtle apple on the nose, but the palate is buzzing with a racy, intense acidity. Absolutely electric. The palate feels malic and green--fruited, with a little lactic/vanilla note on the finish which could be oak. I could see some folks perceiving the wine as too acid-forward, lacking the stuffing to come across as balanced, but I really enjoyed it. Apparently Dagueneau declassified all of their '21 wines into this cuvee.
  

• 2022 Domaine Vacheron Sancerre Les Romains - France, Loire Valley, Upper Loire, Sancerre (6/15/2024)
  Almost tropical on the nose. Very ripe, yellow apple on the palate. There's some minerality, but its all about the richness and fruit. Could use more acidity.
  

• 2021 Domaine de la Taille aux Loups Montlouis-sur-Loire Clos de Mosny - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (6/15/2024)
  Classic lanolin/wooliness on the nose. On the palate, there's tangy acidity, with beeswax and wet, crushed rocks. Bright and lively with a refreshing, mouthwatering finish.
  

Posted from CellarTracker

[Yule_Kim]

@MaciejK

Batardiere

Curious about Simon Batardiere. How is the style? Similar to Bernaudeau or very different?

EDIT: did some more follow-up research and I’m guessing you were referring to Thomas Batardiere? Would be interested to know if you have any experience with Simon (or to speak about either producer in general – I think they are brothers?)

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Three new-to-me producers purchased from Thatcher’s during their opening week in Brentwood last week.

[Vince_T]

I also picked up some Quatre Piliers. Definitely post a note if you pop one

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

@Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m

Three new-to-me producers

@Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r

Les Quatre Piliers Bel Air 2020
Deep, rich and complex nose on tropical fruits, spices and kumquat / ripe orange. Beautiful texture on the palate with plenty of extract, nice underlying acidity and a very long finish. The best glass was the last glass. Can’t wait to see what this will be like in 7 to 10 years but already wonderful to drink now.

I haven’t had a Patrick Baudouin in ages and never had that cuvée but I used to drink his Effusion which was a pretty good QPR (24 CAD) when wanting a bright and tight Chenin Blanc from the region.

[MaciejK]

Thomas, I‘ve never seen anything from Simon. I mentioned it briefly here

What bottle of wine did you open today? (Part 2)

Thomas Batardiere l’Esprit Libre 2022 (Anjou) [IMG_2939] This is quite interesting. Apparently quite popular in the natty circuit, but there is nothing weird here. This is is what I imagine a Chenin made in Chablis style in steel would be like.

Apparently it has’t seen any wood, raised in steel. Sleek, lithe, focused, bone dry. On the opposite end of the spectrum compared to say a Belargus. In this sense not so far away from my recent Bernaudeau l‘Ongles, but the latter lighter and more sublime (and presumably with less ABV).

[Julian_Marshall]

Yes, he’s a good producer - only one caveat though - the ABV levels can be high. I was thinking of buying his Ronceray Les Zersiles 2019 - luckily I checked the ABV before ordering: 15%. Not for me.

[MadsW]

Attended a tasting in Copenhagen of the fresh arrivals from Angeli - Sansonniere. 2022 and 2021

Quite closed and not ready for drinking at this point obviously but quite easy to asses the backbone of the wines.

La lune is drinking rather well already here with a sturdy acidity and fruit. Fouchardes, VV La Blanderie and L’Abbe Daudiere all showing quite similar in style, and not that different at this point. Rose d’ une jour was very pleasant already but it’s made in a sweeter style.

The bigger cuvées of coteau d huet and La lune noire are at first impression a whole lot more packed, but even a 2018 La lune noire opened for comparison was still not that open for business. But I’m sure they’ll be beasts down the line. All in all it’s a very promising vintage in my opinion.

Oh and just a note — all bottles will now come with foil rather than wax. When asked why; it’s for environmental reasons apparently.

[TGibson]

I used to drink Baudouin often when I spent more time in Paris. Good wines.

[TGibson]

@MadsW

all bottles will now come with foil rather than wax

Praise the lord. The trend for all the hipsters in Argentina is wax capsules. It’s unnecessary and annoying.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Julian_Marshall

Firstly, thank you Yule (I hope I’m right in thinking that this is your first name?!) for taking the trouble to start this thread. It’s an excellent idea. It’s also a lot more complicated than the red wine thread which is almost entirely about Cabernet Franc wines! I think you’re absolutely right to choose a vineyard/plot classification rather than a producer one.

I drink Loire whites almost on a daily basis, because they are such good value and because I love the style, but most of mine are entry level so not relevant here. These are just some ideas:

Chenin

There is a new wave of producers that I’m really getting into, who make their wines in a very crisp, fresh style, mostly in the Anjou appellation. I suppose that Thibaud Boudignon has been the trailblazer, but these are for me at the same level of quality, mostly at cheaper prices:

Château de Plaisance - bought by a young vigneronne called Vanessa Cherruau two years ago, who makes mostly dry wines where in the past the wines were Quarts de Chaume. I haven’t tried all of them yet, but my favourite so far is the Savennières. The wines are very precise and chiseled, but slightly softer than Arnaud Lambert’s, for example.

Domaine Belargus - along the same lines, this comprises vineyards previously owned by Jo Pithon who I think is still consulting, along with Guy Bossard. I have only tried the dry whites, which I have found to be sensational, on a higher level than those of Plaisance (and a lot more expensive). I don’t really have a favourite yet.

Bertin-Delatte - bottled as VDFs, the one I just prefer is the Vingt-Neuf cuvée, which is semi-sweet, a beguiling blend of white peach and apricot with very crisp lemon and pear flavours on the finish.

Domaine de La Renière - Saumur - I had an excellent La Cérisaie recently, again more apple and pear than honey, really good value at 16€.

La Grange Tiphaine - Montlouis - I really enjoyed Les Epinays 2017, but I’m slightly concerned by the high ABVs of the more recent vintages.

All of these would merit being somewhere in the list, but I have no idea where - I haven’t had enough yet to be certain. Also, the first two are recent creations so it is too early to say how they will age (and whether the standards will be maintained in subsequent vintages).

Domaine Champalou - Vouvray - this one I do know well. I have been buying their wines since the mid-90s. I wouldn’t say they are quite at the same level as Huet, Chidaine or Blot, but their wines are excellent nonetheless and better value. The style has always been softer - “tendre” - and I think the best is Les Fondraux which is “officially” semi-sweet. The style has changed since 2016, I think, into something crisper than in the past, with more apple and pear flavours and less honey. At 16€ this is much better value than the other more prestigious names. I think the Fourth Growth level is probably appropriate.

Jacky Blot - I’m surprised he hasn’t been mentioned. Unlike the reds, I’ve slightly lost touch with the whites over the last few years, because of the competition. My favourite is Clos de la Bretonnière but maybe there are better ones now?

Muscadet

Domaine de la Pépière - definitely my favourite producer, but I’m not sure which wine is the one I prefer. I love Les Briords but also the crus, with perhaps a slight preference for Thébaud. I’m sure others have better suggestions.

Famille Lieubeau - not at quite the same level, but not far behind. The Thébaud 2015 I had recently was sensational, better than the Pépière 2017.

Bonnet-Huteau - same level as Lieubeau, but I am not sure which wine to choose. Perhaps Les Gautronnières?

Jo Landron - another contender for at least the second level, but which wine? I would go for Haute Tradition but others I’m sure will have more experience than me.

Anyway, just some ideas for discussion!

Julian,

I like Loire Chenin Blanc, but most of my wines are older, but I don’t know some of the newer producers you mention. This is really helpful.

Do you have a similar list for Loire Sauvignon Blanc? I have always really liked the wines from Cotat (probably as much or more than Vatan as I have found them to be more consistent), but really don’t know any newer or up and coming producers there.

[TGibson]

Not sure if you’re familiar with Gerard Boulay. I know the name has been mentioned here many times. Pretty fantastic wines. He’s fortunate to have access to Chavignol.

[Julian_Marshall]

Gosh, I’d forgotten I’d written that! Two years is a long time - today I would remove Belargus, not because of the quality but because of the prices, which have soared, and replace it by Ogereau - very high quality at better prices.

No, I’m sorry - I’m not as much a fan of Loire Sauvignon Blanc - but I would second Tony’s (and others’) Gérard Boulay recommendation.