Benoit Lalanne, Noëls de Montbenault 2023
Deep straw yellow color. Very seductive nose of candied orange peel, ripe orchard fruits, and lemon zest. Ripe orchard fruits for days, but still with a lean acidity to keep all in check and a very long, ever-so-slightly salty finish. I think this is very nice. Personally, I like my chenins young, but I could see it do well for some 10-15 years.
*While it was yesterday, in the time of writing, in my top 3 chenins of the year, it’s unfortunately turned mousey overnight. It’s somehow very reminiscent of the '22 Bernaudeau Coqueries.
La Ferme de la Sansonniere, Les Vielles Vignes des Blanderies 2015
Deep gold color. The nose gives buttermilk, vanilla, caramel and candied lemon peel. The mouth is predominantly sweet peach, bruised pear and a touch of honey and botrytis. Very nice, but as another CT user said, it’s in the tertiary window, so if you have any, drink up. Would maybe have expected to age better than this. Cork is in an advanced state.
My irritation at the apparently ever-increasing prevalence of natural wines is growing into mild anger.
It seems like every time I want to try a new wine these days I need to put in time researching to make sure it’s not a natural wine. They seem to be everywhere these days. I will never understand how so many people are able to enjoy so many flawed wines.
The veer away from sulphur and its emergence as a virtue signal among a generation of winemakers are going to lead to a lot of disappointment for those of us who cellar Loire Chenin and/or enjoy wines without unacceptable flaws like mouse. But at this point there is a “man shouting at cloud” feel to our complaints. And I can’t deny that I enjoy being able to taste a lot more wines fairly young now in a way that was much more difficult 20+ years ago when sulphur use was more prevalent.
The responsible ones take note, clean up and possibly change to a minimal volcanic sulfur dose at bottling like Angeli, who also proudly puts it on the label. That I respect. I will still buy a bottle when offered from Lalanne because this was very good, but if it will be 3 vintages in a row of mousy wine then I’ll stop.
I’d be much more dissappointed as a burg drinker with a domaine who uses all the tools they want but still end up with a premoxed bottle 5 years later, just because they reject technical progress(OK and some evolution I know).
Anyhow, this debate is tiresome. And there’s only one answer, respectful winemakers take note and either clean up their operation or add sulphur at bottling.
If I crane my neck and stand on my tippy toes, I can see the “at least” silver lining for me here — and this is what it looks like: generally speaking, I prefer my Chenins on the younger side. Do I appreciate ones that age well? Absolutely. But most of the Chenins I buy are destined for consumption in their first decade of life. If my favorites are not going to age well, I guess I’ll just buy less and save on the cellar space!
As it is now – for me – this means I’m waiting to find out if Boudignon ages well. I already know that Guiberteau is a crapshoot, and have made the appropriate adjustments there. And I have little interest in messing around with the natural wine messes, so that’ll save me some money, too (but only when I know to avoid any particular wine!) I don’t have the couple decades of experience with Chenin that you do, so my frame of reference is more modern, and materially different than yours (i.e.: I was not around for the locked-down-in-their-youth era).
And yet the “debate” (“conversation”) will persist. At a bare minimum, it needs to be brought-up every time someone like me, or you, or Jayson, or, or or … wants to try a bottling for the first time. {sigh} … “tiresome” is right! Out of courtesy to others, and a relative lack of self-loathing, I keep my butt OUT of the Natural Wines thread.
I guess some of the old school Anjou chenin names (Epire, Moines, Closel) were using more sulphur 20+ years ago. But that was also the height of the Dive Bouteille and Puzelat Montrieux Courtois Robinot et al were putting out science experiments left and right in the Loire. I think there’s been a lot of learning and improved winemaking among certain domaines. But maybe new experimenters arrived and started the cycle anew!
I had a 2015 boudignon a francoise earlier this year (if that counts as old) and it was still incredibly youthful with many years ahead of it. I believe boudignon blocks malo with refrigeration (instead of sulfur) and then uses a small sulfur dose at bottling.
And I had a bottle of their 2015 Anjou Blanc earlier this year, too. Sadly, a bit corked. Despite the TCA, I could tell it was aging nicely — just too bad it was a flawed bottle, and made particularly worse by the fact that it was my last one of that vintage. I’d been saving it because I was convinced it would age well, and I think the bottle gave me enough confirmation on that. I would have liked to have aged it longer, but as it is I’m glad it’s out of the cellar!
I agree, and many of them are so expensive. Even some of my favorite retailers offer wines with high praise that turn out to taste like biology experiments. Now I know I have to do some reading before trying something, which makes it a lot more difficult to branch out into new producers.
This is why it’s important to have a board like this, or at the very least to use CT. I remember chatting about Lalanne with @MaciejK earlier, so I figured it’d be a helpful contribution, all the while knowing this bottle would have benefitted from 5 more years in the cellar. Now I know, it’s unstable, and I’ll likely limit my purchase to 1 bottle per vintage.
For me, in the new school of Loire producers, I’ve only found Jardins de la Martinieres, Olivier Lejeune and perhaps Martial Angeli to be safe. I’ve heard good things about Helicon too, but haven’t tried.
Idk, a 22 Lejune Poesis was pretty mousey last week. Jardins is fabulous but pretty hard to find. The one that has been a fun new find for me is Clos des Brétèches.
Haven’t had a bad Belargus either. I’m not sure what qualifies as new school, but with a string of hot vintages even my beloved Bernaudeau isn’t completely safe.
Standard or 24 Mois? Didn’t try any of my '22s yet, but thats a bummer to hear… That’s similar again to the '22 Coqueries. '22 Nourissons and '22 Vallee Moray has been fine here.
Ah yes Breteches has been good too!
I’m not surprised. They’re big, ripe wines. I also think they’re great, and that they sometimes impress me (especially the Quarts Sec). I also like more acid-driven wines like Boudignon and Guiberteau.
I should mention that some Belargus wines have been too ripe for me. When they’re not, though, I love them. I don’t love the pricing, but there’s nothing else like them.
I think I am ready to throw the towel on the “in” names. The highs are rarely that high, the lows can be bottomless. If I see say a Batardiere or Autran (never had a bad bottle from those two) at normal prices I might give them a go, otherwise the plan is to go back to “normal” wines.
