At dinner with a bunch of folks on Thursday, we had the '96 Cazin- Cour-Cheverny Cuvee Renaissance and the '08 Foreau- Vouvray Demi-sec, both amongst my favorite wines to ever come out of the Loire. For good measure, there was a '96 Huet- Vouvray Moelleux Le Haut-Lieu, which was terrific and so vivid, as all their '96s are. That one’s a bit of an oddball as most of us locals that bought '96s originally bought Sec, Dem-Sec and 1ere Tries. The straight Moelleux kind of got lost in the shuffle, so it was nice to check in on one.
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'96 Huets are so great. They seem immortal.
I also remember drinking an '08 Foreau Demi-Sec almost 15 years ago for Christmas dinner with family. Terrific wine; I wish I still had some.
2002 Cazin Renaissance last year was also in a nice place. I never had it young, but it had some lovely nutty, caramel, and honeyed tertiary notes.
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The '02 is another of my favorite vintages, which I put just behind the '08 and '15, but none of them reach the heights of the '96, imo.
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2024 Chidaine Les Bournais
I’ve come back to Chidaine in recent years, but mostly Choisilles and Breuil, to keep it refreshing. Bournais had been getting so heavy (including the bottle, my goodness!), but figured 2024 might be the vintage to retaste. This was very nice, an intriguing blend of ripe powerful orchard fruit and some crisp delicate mineral precision and lively tingly tangy notes. I enjoyed it and will be curious to see how it develops with time.
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As promised, today was 2024 Clos du Breuil, and this is my kind of wine. Plenty of firm ripe fleshy pale citrus white melon fruit, but also loads of crystalline cut and refreshing chalky tangy finish. Much livelier than the Bournais, which may be more textured and layered for the future. But for now, I’m happier with this on my table.
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Following up on the theme, 2024 Chidaine Baudoin, which is a great juxtaposition to the previous two. Not as fresh and crystal cut as the Breuil, but not as deep and stacked as the Bournais. This is a lovely, balanced, attractive and ripe chenin in the modern vein, no rustic streaks. But with 2024 crisp crunch. I think I could pick this as the softer Vouvray in comparison to the previous Breuil and Bournais, but could also be the power of suggestion…
For now, this may fall inbetween the others as less satisfying on both dimensions. But there is lots of textural layered chew that emerges with air, so perhaps it is a longer-term bottling, if one is in the mood to age Chidaine.
Regardless, 2024 is my kind of vintage, and I’m savoring every bottle…
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I opened a 2020 Domaine du Collier Saumur Blanc last night. This is my third recent bottle of Collier whites (2 vintages of Saumur Blanc and 1 Charpentrie), after people here encouraged me to try the wines again. I had previously thought of them as a bit funky. I haven’t found that in any of these bottles (or the red I opened). Even if this isn’t my absolute favorite style, I have found all of these bottles to be excellent. I can see how people appreciate their focus and intensity, which comes without any excess weight or alcohol. Good stuff, at prices that still seem fair for what’s in the bottle (for the entry level, anyway).
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Thank you for your Chidaine notes. Given the breadth of their range, and their inconsistencies, I don’t dabble with them much anymore. But I would if I felt I had trustworthy and pointed direction, so Thank You for giving us that.
This part of your post I quoted — it seems a bit loaded: do you generally expect Vouvrays to show as soft (relative to other appellation(s)?)?
Well of course there is lots of geeky variation across cuvees/vineyards and producers, which is why I am not confident in my ability to pick out a wide range of Vouvray vs. Montlouis blind. But, Montlouis is on the south side of the river facing north, and historically produced crisper racier lighter wines, whereas Vouvray is on the north side of the river and gives riper flavors and more body. I do still think of that broad distinction, but I am sure someone can tell me it’s oversimplified.
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Thanks for this! I never knew. Would certainly be interested to hear further thoughts and insight from anyone else who is inclined to chime in.
I know you’re generalizing, but I’d argue your adjective usage paints a prettier picture of Montlouis and gives short thrift to Vouvray. Your description of Vouvray makes it seem more ponderous and that’s hardly the case. They are certainly more substantial with greater aging ability (in general) than Montlouis, but that’s due to its great acidity, aka raciness and the fact that they typically produce styles with more residual sugar, i.e., demi-secs, moelleux and moelleux + (1ere trie and the like.)
My take is that Montlouis, on average, has typically produced lighter, drier wines that are less “serious” and less age worthy than Vouvray and don’t show Chenin’s best because they typically shy away from retaining any residual sugar. Additionally, the soils of Montlouis are much sandier and have a lot more clay in them, whereas Vouvray’s are limestone dominated and I find the difference quite noticeable in the wines and much prefer the mineral character of Vouvray.
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Not my intention at all. I thought ‘ripe flavors’ and ‘more body’ were pretty neutral descriptors, certainly not meant to be equated with ponderous.
Obviously Vouvray is the more prestigious appellation historically, likely for good reason. Lots of things are changing now with these ripe vintages, so Montlouis wines can achieve more ripeness, for better or worse. Will see if that leads to any sites becoming rivals to the best Vouvray.
Some of Chidaine’s wines have been quite ripe for a long time. Was he an outlier at some point in the past? Is he still?
Outlier in what way?
Obviously everyone’s wines have been getting riper in recent years, although wineries respond in different ways.
Chidaine did have a wide range of cuvees with varying degrees of rs, from the beginning. But the drier end (Choisilles/Breuil) tasted very different in 2002 as opposed to 2022. That’s how it goes.
Yes, I find he has had a riper style in recent times than some others on the Montlouis side and perhaps fares less well in solar years (IMO). The Jacky Blot wines, to take a comparison, often manage to clock in at around 12-13.0 abv even in the hotter years and retain fair freshness (they block malo and, I presume, pick relatively early in hot years). I have found Xavier Weisskopf to also make a crisper style. At least this is my impression.
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A 2015 Pinon Vouvray Les Trois Argiles yesterday was terrific, much fresher than the dark gold color would suggest and a great example of sec tendre Vouvray.
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Ferme de la Sansonniere, L’Abbé Daudiére 2023
It’s certainly a new kind of chenin, now that Martial has taken over.
It’s a sleeker and more elegant kind of wine.
Medium straw color. Ripe pear, honey and beeswax and some elderflower. The acidity is medium and there’s a classic Angeli chewy quality to it. The mouth is grapefruit, lime and just close to ripe stonefruits. It’s very nice and it’s structure gives me hope for aging.
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We had 2024 Lune blind a couple months ago, and I never would have guessed Angeli based on style. It was more like a Boudignon style.
Yes. I’d say so too. I’d be curious to hear what you think after trying a few more cuvees Jayson.
I don’t mind it if it means there’s a bit more consistency across the board. I wish they’d have popped on DIAM too. My premox rate with Angeli has been horrible.
Domaine Michel Redde Pouilly Fume Majorum 2020
Obviously a well guarded secret (Am I getting myself into trouble over this? ), the last mention of this bottling here is from 2012.
Sauv. Blanc typicity is there if you really look for it, but blind it wouldn’t be easy to identify it. You could be fooled into thinking Riesling. The nose of freshly picked yellow plums. Chalky, smoky, flinty. Powerful without being overbearing. A stunner.
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