Which Champagne are you drinking?

WINE TALK
9290

Frank,

Marguet used to source some grapes from Philippe Lancelot. It was mostly or all grapes from Ay before Phillippe sold the Ay plots as they were kind of a one-off in his holdings. There was a connection between the two producers for a number of years.

I find the wines of Phillippe Lancelot to be extremely good, especially the Chardonnays. They are not always inexpensive and not always easy to find, but the wines are good and follow what I believe are the farming and winemaking practices that you are passionate about.

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9291

Zero percent surprising this 0% RS juice is in your zone, FMIII; it’s less so in mine.

Unequivocally, a beautifully made bottle of wine. Purity of fruit, persistence and breadth on the palate, not hollow or lacking in depth or complexity. There’s crunchy peaches and pear, I think. Also, a clear saline cut straight through the entire palate. The acidity is popping and added with that salty cut is a palate sensation.

All of that said, I prefer women and Champagne with some hips.

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9292

@Brad_Baker …thank you. By the way, I found some Dehu Pythie, which I know you posted about a few years back. Have not opened it yet, the vintage is 2018. Your post is about the only source of info on the wine, and I can’t seem to get a reply from Benoit Dehu based on my reachouts to him.

@ky1em1ttskus…you know, you can still drink Efflorescence, and then follow it up with some rosehip tea. Then the hips you need are taken care of. Thank you for the note, the perspective. I’ve got a few left, it’s time to try another so thank you for making the post.

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9293

Bergere hit our market recently, but I’ve never had one. I’ll enjoy reading about your visit when you do.

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Astrid,
I’d like to join Frank in having great admiration and appreciation for your TNs —- they’re always honest, and reflective of thoughtful consideration; thank you. :clinking_glasses:

9295

I bought two recently. I hadn’t remembered I’d had it before, and like you, wasn’t wowed. Here’s my note from 5 years ago:

Vintages 1971,1975,1976,1982,1984, with a touch of younger vintage juice. 40% Pinot Meunier, 40% Pinot Noir, 20% Chardonnay. Dosage 5 gr/liter
Intense and toasty, but I didn’t love it as much as I had hoped.

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9296

@AstridKG , @Frank_Murray_III , @Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r ,

Thanks for posting the inquiry and the notes. I heard he’s a friend of Leclapart and Brochet. I bought a couple a year ago based on this note from the importer:

We have another rare cuvee from Lancelot, a rising star biodynamic producer. As we mentioned in our previous offer, the Champagnes from Phillippe Lancelot are incredibly rare, and this is the second time we have been able to offer anything from this small Cramant-based producer. Phillippe took over his family, Domaine Y. Lancelot-Wanner, established in 1961 by Phillippe’s grandparents. The two had extraordinary holdings in the great villages of Cramant, Chouilly, Oiry, and Avize, as well as in Epernay and Aÿ. Phillippe was born into a world of Champagne and, from a young age, was part of the family tradition, and in 2008 at the age of 28, he assumed complete control. Phillippe was fascinated by Biodynamics and was set on converting the Domaine after trying the Champagnes from Fleury in the Cote des Bar, saying they showed an added energy that regular farming didn’t have and began converting in 2012. He is now a complete disciple of Biodynamics, using all the preparations required, and following the lunar calendar.
Biodynamics has unlocked the family parcels that Phillippe works with, many of which have old vines amplifying their expression. An excellent example of his Biodynamic mastery is the 2016 Fine fleur. Fine Fleur is a blanc de Blancs that is sourced exclusively from the village of Chouilly from vines upwards of 75 years old in some plots. This is vinified in older oak barrels and disgorged with a low 2.5-gram dosage. It is a Cuvee that combines both richness and power with precision and elegance and shows gourmand notes with incredible purity of fruit, spice, brioche, and a mineral spine. This is an impressive Blanc de Blancs that can be enjoyed now but has the structure to go a few more years in the cellar. If you follow some of the natural Champagne producers like Marguet, then this is one to check out as one of the rising addresses for Biodynamic Champagne.

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9297

We just started carrying his wines because my associate really liked them!

I’ve got the following in my cellar just waiting to get uncorked.

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I’ll post some TNs before my trip I think.

9298

A few days ago, I cracked open another bottle of Chavost. I am trying to go through them quickly because my impression is that ageing will decrease my odds of liking them. Also, I know I keep harping on this, but fat bottles’ contents need to be worth their real-estate hogging.

As @scottkieser suggested, I’m endeavoring to keep an open mind but may fail, so take this note with a glass of your favorite sparkler.

NV Chavost Champagne Rosé de Saignée Brut Nature
67% PM, 33% PN, Disg Feb 2023. No added sulfites.

PnP, 59*, then retasted over 3 days at various temps.

Deep salmon color, not entirely translucent (just a bit of cloudiness). Rough mousse. Small bead. Strong nose of cranberry and some yeast. Tastes so much of unsweetened cranberry, it’s practically one-note. If I fish around and concentrate hard, something like Seville orange comes around. A lot of acidity, but also a bitter note. Short finish. By the third day, it seemed to have lost most of the cranberry and a sour note was emerging. I couldn’t finish that glass.

Overall, it was fine and much better than the Blanc de Meunier. I paid $72 before taxes. To me, the wine was not worth that price or the fat bottle, but you might think differently :slight_smile: . I have another bottle of the Rosé, disgorged 03/2022 (should have opened that first, but forgot they were purchased @ different times).

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9299

I really enjoyed that A. Bergere BdB Solera bottling. Apple pie (fruit, pasty, spice) in a glass. I thought the price was quite reasonable too.

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9300

I haven’t had this one. It was the Blanc de Blancs I really enjoyed, but it was certainly an idiosyncratic wine, and one I imagine many would dislike.

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I had the pleasure of participating in this champagne BYO tasting event Friday night (with a few fellow Berserkers here too). We had quite the lineup, and decided to do a “this vs that” side by side tasting to get through these wines. I didn’t take extensive notes, but I wanted to share some overall impressions on the wines that really spoke to me.

Opener: 1988 Mumm Extra Brut

This showed quite nicely! Deeply honeyed and nutty, oxidative from the age, but enjoyable. High RS on this extra brut likely helped keep it alive for so long. A really interesting window into what an entry level grand marque will do left in the cellar for decades.

Flight 1: Egly Ouriet Les Premices (2021 disgorgement) vs Egly Ouriet VP (2023 disgorgement).

Both Egly’s were excellent, and proved why this remains one of my favorite champagne producers regardless of price. The VP was a more integrated, complex wine with a mouth coating texture that was just magic. The Les Premices, at virtually half the cost, is a value champ and brought a ton of enjoyment as well. Both wines share a signature ripe, rich style and they have long lives ahead of them for cellaring.

Flight 2: Pierre Moncuit BdB 2006 vs Pierre Moncuit BdB 2008.

A fun side by side to observe vintage variation. The 2006 was more full and round, with the 2008 more structured and lean (while still being a fairly rich style of wine, of course). The 2006 was also a brut vs the 2008 an extra brut, explaining some of the perceived difference in leanness. Both excellent wines, and the 2008 likely has a long aging curve ahead. Enjoy the 2006 right now though, it’s wonderful. Thought these wines would play well to a crowd - balanced, delicious, rich.

Flight 3: Doyard Vendemiaire vs Andre Clouet 1911

My first experience with Doyard (picked this up on @Marcus_Goodfellow ’s recommendation here in this thread). I can see why this is such a revered producer. The acid on the Vendemiaire is just absolutely killer, and there’s loads of quiet complexity to the wine. This is one that gets a bit lost in lineup this large, and really deserves its own full evening to sip and analyze. Glad I have another bottle to enjoy later. The Clouet 1911 was also very nice, if not over the top toasty and brioche laden (can you complain though?). The wine achieves a good balance, bringing acidity to those richer, vinous flavors.

Flight 4: Pierre Paillard Les Terres Roses vs Charles Heidsieck Rose Reserve

In this battle of the grower vs the grand marque, Charles Heidsieck stole the show (for me). The Paillard is a leaner, cleaner style, but felt a bit lacking in energy and complexity. Still a good wine, though, and I find that Paillard’s single vineyard bottlings are where this producer really shines. The Heidsieck was incredibly complex and rich on the nose, packing in so much vinuous punch from those reserve wines. The Heidsieck brut reserve (non rose) has become a bit of a house wine for me, so I clearly enjoy the style, but this was my first experience with the Heidsieck rose and it really impressed me. Awesome wine, and a heck of a deal.

Flight 5: Rhys Perpetual Reserve vs Ultramarine Blanc de Blancs

My first experience with both of these California sparklers. The Ultramarine was the clear standout here, showing the kinds of complex, terroir-driven notes we got in the Egly wines, but clearly from a very different place. Acid was wonderful. This was a really nice wine, but I have a hard time saying that it’s worth the secondary market values these wines go for, particularly when wines like the Doyard and the Heidsieck Rose exist for so much less. The Rhys, on the other hand, was nice, but had some polarizing notes on the nose - another member called out tennis ball, which was pretty spot on when I brought my nose up to the glass. I didn’t mind it, actually, but others couldn’t get totally past it. The Rhys really felt more like a riper CA Chardonnay, not trying to be champagne at all, which I suppose is being true to itself, and I can appreciate it for that.

Flight 6 Soloist: Roses de Jane (Cedric Bouchard) Val Vilaine VVR20 (2022 disgorgement)

Having purchased a few of the VV/R21s recently, but never actually having tried this wine, I was pleased to say this was the clear and convincing wine of the night for me, and I suspect for many others in the group. This wine just does it all. Brilliant acidity, autolytic nose, terroir in spades, texture and structure…all of it. This clearly has a ton of aging potential, but at the same time was incredibly delicious right now. I’d love to sit with this bottle and enjoy over 4-5 hours, it commands it. Drink this at cellar temp, no cooler.

Flight 7: Laherte Freres Ultradition Brut vs H Goutorbe Cuvee Prestige

I had the Laherte Ultradition just a few weeks ago and posted a note here in this thread likening it to a Charles Heidsieck Brut Reserve and this bottle confirmed that yet again. While the Heidsieck is already a strong QPR proposition, the Laherte Ultradition is even better along that metric if you ask me. Definitely a crowd pleasing style that shows so many of Champagne’s greatest traits. The Goutorbe was a new producer to me, and I really enjoyed this bottle. There’s a deeper, more vinous terroir note here, while still being highly approachable and similar in some respects to the Laherte. I’d like to explore some of this producer’s other wines, including the Special Club offering.

Flight 8: everything else…

After seven flights it seems the group was too deep in conversation to keep the flight format going, so we decided to just enjoy what was left of all the wines, including a few we hadn’t yet opened.

The Veuve Cliquot was served blind, and I actually found this to be quite enjoyable. Recent bottlings I’ve found to be poor QPR, lacking complexity and often showing a bit of a bitter finish, but it turns out this bottle had a full decade in the cellar, and that actually seemed to smooth out some of the rougher edges that can be present in this cuvée. Who knew?

The Paul Bara Rose would have made a better competitor to the Charles Heidsieck Rose as they’re both richer roses, but the Bara seems to express much more site vs age complexity from the Heidsieck. Both beautiful wines though, and this was my first experience with Paul Bara (certainly won’t be my last).

The early 80s Perrier Jouet was another fascinating story of how an entry level champagne can age. Bubbles were fading fast here, but the base wine was fragrant and rich. Color was so deep and golden. I wouldn’t want more than a small tasting portion here, but still fun stuff.

My Wines of the Night:
1. Roses de Jeane (Cedric Bouchard) VV/R20
2. Egly Ouriet VP
3. Egly Ouriet Les Premices
4. Doyard Vendemiare
5. Charles Heidsieck Rose
6. Ultramarine Blanc de Blanc
7. Pierre Moncuit 2006
8. H. Goutorbe Cuvee Prestige

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9302

I had the 2008 Pierre Moncuit BdB today for lunch.

Lemon cream, with a long finish of cream, nugat, and chalk; dry; medium body, medium acid, high amount of small bubbles… opened up nicely over an hour or so. 91 - 92 points amd already a bit improved from a year ago. I see this continuing to improve for the time being.

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9303

I brought a Krug 168 to dinner tonight. Zero pressure when I removed the cork and I feared the wine would be flat and dead. Very fine bead when poured, no froth, angular and acidic on opening, gained weight and depth after 30 mins. Very good for an off bottle. The first bottle from this particular lot; I’m interested to taste another soon.

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De Sousa Mycorhize:

In the movie Bananas, Woody Allen is about to make love to Louise Lasser and whispers, “I love you,” in her ear. She moans and says,“ Say it in French!” He replies, “I don’t speak French. Do you want me to say it in Hebrew?” That’s how I feel about talking about this bottle. Any words I can muster will be banal and unworthy of its beauty. In fact, the only way I can conceive about conveying anything useful about this wine is very crass: I have to use a drug analogy.

Have you consumed a cannabis infused brownie, and nothing happens after an hour, so you take another one, another hour passes, you still feel nothing, and you then consume a third dose? It hits very suddenly. Your heart is racing; the room is spinning; you’re hungry and nauseated; excited and sleepy; anxious and relaxed. You think you couldn’t possibly get any higher, and an hour later, dose two kicks in. Now the room is really spinning, the hunger has been murdered by the nausea, and your heart beats so fast, an explosion seems imminent. And yet, you can’t stop laughing. The sight of your shoes makes you laugh to the point of cyanosis. Time dilates. You wonder if you’re gonna live, which begets thoughts about the origins of consciousness, and what it really means to be alive, and then it hits again. You recoil in abject terror with the realization there is no ceiling. You’re strapped to a rocket ship and the only anecdote is time. Time as experienced at the event horizon of a black hole. Yeah, dinking this is a similar kind of journey.

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9305

I’m in for all of this note. :100:.

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9306

Love Mycorhize. Punches way above its price. I haven’t decided whether your note makes me want to drink a bottle or make love to it!

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We sell De Sousa champagnes and the only thing we have against Mycorhize is that we can’t source enough of it :slightly_smiling_face:. Lovely wine.

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9308

Rodez Cuvee des Crayeres - so rich, deep, and well balanced. Every time I drink Rodez, I tell myself that I should drink more. Myself never argues back.

For those keeping score, my sweetheart list to date is Agrapart, Doyard, and Rodez.

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Summary

Went to dinner for my girlfriend’s mom’s birthday. She lives in a more remote area, the kind where even their nice restaurants the premium wine would be Apothic Red.

So I brought this for corkage ($10).

We all know the wine - this was the Q4 2022 disgorgement. 33% PN, 43% Chardonnay, 24% Meunier. 57% base wines of 2019, 43% reserve dating back to 2014 harvest. 5.1g/l dosage, partial malo.

All that to say I didn’t really pay a whole lot of attention to this. For starters the server was afraid to open champagne, so someone else did for her, I offered. Then she poured it almost to the rim of the wine glass at that moment I decided to just enjoy that I was drinking a nice champagne.

And that’s what it is; although it felt less enchanting than it normally does to me. Plenty of autolytic notes, brioche and the like. I wasn’t getting as much fruit as I normally do, not going to read much into it because of the setting.

Apologies for the long note about virtually nothing, don’t know how I wrote this much.

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