Where's the Burgundy price sweet spot?

[Matthew_King]

I have to be guaranteed that it is going to be a transcendental experience for me to pay over $150 for something. That is never guaranteed in Burgundy–especially with whites.

Out of curiosity, where do you think a transcendental experience is guaranteed, at any price point?

I’m not Josh, but I think he already answered that question. Magic mushrooms sell for about $35 an eighth, I believe.

[Peter_Chiu]

Tom…curious - so here are the prices at Wine-searchers.

Parent 2018 is at around $300.

I have 3 favorite producer for red Corton. By far is by Chevelier -Rognet ( judge by QPR factor only ). His 2018 is at $ 103. Des Croix Corton-Greves is at around $ 150 and so is M. Mallard - Le Rognet.

I agree with you the 2015 will be something out of the world as I only tried the Des Croix 2015 plus 1 bottle of 2015 Mallard after I got them at release. Chevelier2015 only came in Mgm…

Of the 3 - Michel Mallard…is my favorite but need long, long bottle ageing - despite the fact he had soften it up since he joint Domaine D’Eugeine in 2006-2007.


Des Croix comes every year…but not the other 2. So far…no 2016, no 2017 and also no 2018 for Chevelier and Mallard.

I was smart enough - not to let my wife know - and bought all 3 them for vintage 2015.

[Stan_Y]

I was smart enough - not to let my (spouse) know.

This is some sweet Burgundy advice!

[Peter_Chiu]

**** think there’s a point in this discussion for me where having “grand cru” on a label is just not all that indicative of the Q in the QPR piece of the argument, especially in Corton and Clos Vougeot.****

Greg - no argument from me but I would like to add : Corton and CdV…are … wonderful hunting grounds !!

BTW - Greg…if you have a chance …please try a CdV by Eugenie.

Stan - merci…

[David_Bu3ker]

For me it has become village wines from excellent producers. I then can allow my meager purchases of higher end bottles to mature properly, while still having very good wine to drink in the interim. It doesn’t bring fireworks, but it does bring pleasure.

[MChang]

Best QPR for grand cru has to be Hudelot CV. Can still find it <200 which is just absurd.

Pierre Amiot CDLR is another great one around 150.

The fight club shh grand cru producer would be Coquard Loison Fleurot.

[Ian_Sutton]

Sweet spot is about 2-3 decades ago. Head there for good value. Even more true for the whites.

[Josh_Grossman]

I have to be guaranteed that it is going to be a transcendental experience for me to pay over $150 for something. That is never guaranteed in Burgundy–especially with whites.

Out of curiosity, where do you think a transcendental experience is guaranteed, at any price point?

There are critics I trust (JLL, William Kelley, Tanzer, Stuart Pigott) and if they give a near perfect score and it comes in under that, I’ll usually grab a bottle. If everyone here starts going berserk over some wine, I’ll usually grab a bottle. As long as there isn’t TCA, it is usually a good bet. There are enough great wines that when the relative price of Burgundy rises too much, I’ll go elsewhere (Chinon, Brunello, Oregon often scratch the same itch).

[MChang]

Given the enormous price variation in Burgundy, and the fact that prices escalate very very quickly, I’m curious as to where people feel their money is best spent. Would it make most sense to concentrate on buying lots of different regional or village wines from high quality producers, maybe single vineyard? Is this where the most bang per buck is? What about a lower level 1er cru? A little more money, for more consistent quality? What about a top 1er cru? Or is it only really worth it to shell out the big bucks for the best of the best?

My personal experience with Burgundy is that the wines tend to be somewhere from mediocre to good. It feels like I can almost always have gotten more for my money if I had bought wine coming from pretty much any other region. But occasionally the wines are simply magnificent and worth every penny. This is coming from a drinker of mostly village, occasionally 1er cru, and very rarely (lower priced) Grand Cru. I’m not popping corks on Richebourg or Le Montrachet.

So what do you all think? Obviously, we’d all buy exclusively Grand Cru DRC, Leroy, Coche, Lafon, etc if we could afford it, but I’m curious where you all feel your money is best spent. What kind of Burgundy buying habits do you have, and what advice would you give to others?

Thanks!

Btw this quote isn’t true.

[Chris_Seiber]

Sweet spot is about 2-3 decades ago. Head there for good value. Even more true for the whites.

You mean if you could travel back in time 2-3 decades and make your purchases?

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Given the enormous price variation in Burgundy, and the fact that prices escalate very very quickly, I’m curious as to where people feel their money is best spent. Would it make most sense to concentrate on buying lots of different regional or village wines from high quality producers, maybe single vineyard? Is this where the most bang per buck is? What about a lower level 1er cru? A little more money, for more consistent quality? What about a top 1er cru? Or is it only really worth it to shell out the big bucks for the best of the best?

My personal experience with Burgundy is that the wines tend to be somewhere from mediocre to good. It feels like I can almost always have gotten more for my money if I had bought wine coming from pretty much any other region. But occasionally the wines are simply magnificent and worth every penny. This is coming from a drinker of mostly village, occasionally 1er cru, and very rarely (lower priced) Grand Cru. I’m not popping corks on Richebourg or Le Montrachet.

So what do you all think? Obviously, we’d all buy exclusively Grand Cru DRC, Leroy, Coche, Lafon, etc if we could afford it, but I’m curious where you all feel your money is best spent. What kind of Burgundy buying habits do you have, and what advice would you give to others?

Thanks!

Btw this quote isn’t true.

Far from it. Not only would that be boring, it would be exhausting. Sometimes one has only the energy and attention span for a simple, delicious little wine of no particular significance.

[Tom_Blach]

Having been at this quite a while, the real value is in maturity. A village wine from a good producer in a good vintage at 20-25 years old is far more likely to be wonderful than a highly sought after grand cru at ten years old.

[Josh_Grossman]

Having been at this quite a while, the real value is in maturity. A village wine from a good producer in a good vintage at 20-25 years old is far more likely to be wonderful than a highly sought after grand cru at ten years old.

That is a problem. If I’m paying these prices–I’m going to be sure that I properly age and cellar it. If I didn’t it would be hard to enjoy if not at apogee. So in addition to the insane price, you also have to let it sit for 15+ years.

Ain't Nobody Got Time For That (Original + AutoTune)

[David_Bu3ker]

Sweet spot is about 2-3 decades ago. Head there for good value. Even more true for the whites.

Yes, but the DeLorean is hard to come by.

[vincentD]

My answer will not be too different from others

Red

• a village from an excellent producer in Cote de Nuit (whatever vintage you can find). I would limit my budget around $75 - $125. You can drink it after 5 years and can hold it for 20
• a good (not top of the line) 1C from a good producer in Cote de Beaunes. Beaune 1C, Volnay 1C, Pommard 1C. Should be around $75- $125. You have to wait for at least 10 years to open it, 15-20 years is better. Think Bouchard/Montille/Angerville (it is becoming pricey).

White

• I disregard village in Beaune, there is so much better value in Loire/Alsace on that price point
• 1C of Chassagne, St Aubin, Meursault of good producers but not overhyped (Buisson Charles, some of the Morey’s, Carillon, Niellon, Colin, …). Wait at least 6-7years. You can find those bottles below $100

[A_Songeur]

• Grand cru: up to 220$
• 1er Cru: up to 120$
• Village: up to 60$
  White: preferably avoid premox: even 20$ is too much for pouring down the sink (although one can make wonderful sauce for food with premox…)

[MChang]

Having been at this quite a while, the real value is in maturity. A village wine from a good producer in a good vintage at 20-25 years old is far more likely to be wonderful than a highly sought after grand cru at ten years old.

That really depends on what you prefer, beautiful super pure exuberant fruits or more savory earthy flavors.

[Greg_K]

**** think there’s a point in this discussion for me where having “grand cru” on a label is just not all that indicative of the Q in the QPR piece of the argument, especially in Corton and Clos Vougeot.****

Greg - no argument from me but I would like to add : Corton and CdV…are … wonderful hunting grounds !!

BTW - Greg…if you have a chance …please try a CdV by Eugenie.

Stan - merci…

To be clear, I think there are excellent Clos Vougeots - I just don’t think it’s a grand cru that is uniformly on par with other grand crus. Same for Corton. For many producers, I’d much rather have their 1ers from other sites than Clos Vougeot. Hudelot Noellat is one, for example - I think the Suchots is a better wine (and I like the wines a lot).

[Tom_Blach]

Having been at this quite a while, the real value is in maturity. A village wine from a good producer in a good vintage at 20-25 years old is far more likely to be wonderful than a highly sought after grand cru at ten years old.

That really depends on what you prefer, beautiful super pure exuberant fruits or more savory earthy flavors.

For the joy of pinot the former does very well, but for the magic of burgundy age is not optional.

[Michael_S_Monie]

Given the enormous price variation in Burgundy, and the fact that prices escalate very very quickly, I’m curious as to where people feel their money is best spent. Would it make most sense to concentrate on buying lots of different regional or village wines from high quality producers, maybe single vineyard? Is this where the most bang per buck is? What about a lower level 1er cru? A little more money, for more consistent quality? What about a top 1er cru? Or is it only really worth it to shell out the big bucks for the best of the best?

My personal experience with Burgundy is that the wines tend to be somewhere from mediocre to good. It feels like I can almost always have gotten more for my money if I had bought wine coming from pretty much any other region. But occasionally the wines are simply magnificent and worth every penny. This is coming from a drinker of mostly village, occasionally 1er cru, and very rarely (lower priced) Grand Cru. I’m not popping corks on Richebourg or Le Montrachet.

So what do you all think? Obviously, we’d all buy exclusively Grand Cru DRC, Leroy, Coche, Lafon, etc if we could afford it, but I’m curious where you all feel your money is best spent. What kind of Burgundy buying habits do you have, and what advice would you give to others?

Thanks!

Btw this quote isn’t true.

Far from it. Not only would that be boring, it would be exhausting. Sometimes one has only the energy and attention span for a simple, delicious little wine of no particular significance.

That’s when I usually drink a really good beer.