So that the calf does not get thrown out with the polluted bathwater in a now-closed thread, I am cutting and pasting the beef-specific contributions in the hope of keeping the topic going. It seems that there is a goodly amount of international learning to be had from the board’s members. I have done the best editing job that I could to keep the flow and dialogue of the beef sub-topic:
Post #1 Post by Mike During » 12 Jan 2014 21:22
I have never had a great steak in Italy or France for that matter. I agree the Italians are excellent with “tidbits” much better than the French.
Post #2 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » 13 Jan 2014 01:56
Mike During wrote:
I have never had a great steak in Italy or France for that matter.
La Tupina in Bdx. — excellent steaks.
Post #3 Post by Bill Klapp » 13 Jan 2014 02:14
Au Boeuf Couronne in Paris. Souffled potatoes a la Antoine’s in New Orleans as well.
Post #4 Post by Russell Faulkner » 13 Jan 2014 05:50
Not sure what steak has to do anything, but steak in Europe generally is a different beast to the US. Corn vs grass, different cuts etc.
If you expect a huge slab with lots of sweet fat and soft texture you will be disappointed.
Post #11 Post
by Bill Bøykin » 13 Jan 2014 15:41
andreadago wrote:
Mike During wrote:
I have never had a great steak in Italy or France for that matter.
You have certainly never been to the right places. I never had a really good steak in the US either, but I have only been to Delmonico in Vegas and to Brenner’s in Houston, so probably not to the right places…
+2
You have certainly missed superb Bistecca Fiorentina from plenty of vendors throughout Tuscany.
Chianina beef is known for its tenderness and succulence.
Post #12 Post by andreadago » 13 Jan 2014 15:48
Bill Bøykin wrote:
andreadago wrote:
Mike During wrote:
I have never had a great steak in Italy or France for that matter.
You have certainly never been to the right places. I never had a really good steak in the US either, but I have only been to Delmonico in Vegas and to Brenner’s in Houston, so probably not to the right places…
+2
You have certainly missed superb Bistecca Fiorentina from plenty of vendors throughout Tuscany.
Chianina beef is known for its tenderness and succulence.
I don’t want to drift the thread too much, but Chianina IS NOT the best beef to make Fiorentina. Too little fat in the meat…
Post #19 Post by Bill Klapp » 13 Jan 2014 16:40
Bill Boykin, I assume that Andrea may be thinking of the local Piemontese Razza here, which, while often bearing a bit more fat than Chianina, is still magro compared to the Landreth steak pictured above. This time of year, we are eating bue grasso (literally, “fat ox”, but really beef) from Carru, but it is not often any less lean than the other beef found here. Tender and delicious it is, however, so I suspect that it would satisfy your requirements. It is rare to cook beyond rare. Butchers have been known to denounce those who overcook it to the carabineri…
Post #20 Post by Bill Bøykin » 13 Jan 2014 16:51
Again,to each his own,and I don’t mind my Bistecca dripping with more fat occasionally,but at this point in my life,I generally/usually prefer the leaner,abeit still succulent cuts…and an 87 Monfortino will do just fine to accompany…
Post #21 Post by Bill Klapp » 13 Jan 2014 16:58
Lean is still what I was suggesting. I do not find any American-style marbled beef here, unless it comes from elsewhere in the EU, although it may well exist, and I, too, am at that point in life. Marbled PORK, on the other hand, in prosciutto and otherwise…mamma mia! And not so much fat, but rather, in modest quantity and in all the right places, like a young Sophia Loren or Gina Lollobrigida! 
Post #65 Post by Bill Klapp » 14 Jan 2014 16:24
It is hard, probably impossible, to beat the best U.S. beef. The IDEA of Kobe beef appeals to me, and I can appreciate the attraction, but I find it to be insipid and bland. If I am going to eat beef, I want it to taste like beef and to deliver texture appropriate to the cut…
Post #66 Post by Russell Faulkner » 14 Jan 2014 16:41
Some of us raised on the best England, Scotland and Ireland have to offer prefer ‘meaty’ flavour over sweeter fat, and prefer a more stern texture.
Not better or worse but different.
I agree on Kobe and the best Japanese beef, better for Shabu Shabi than steak IMHO (and that of a couple of chefs I asked in Tokyo and Kyoto).
Post #68 Post by andreadago » 14 Jan 2014 17:07
Bill Klapp wrote:
It is hard, probably impossible, to beat the best U.S. beef.
And why should it be so? better than the best Danish beef, than the best French beef, than the best Spanish beef, I, D, NOR, …
You just don’t know and can’t say.
You are taking your acquired taste and make it absolute, not so different in logic with what Steve is doing with cooking…
Post #71 Post by Russell Faulkner » 14 Jan 2014 17:32
It’s because good corn fed beef is very scarce in the UK and high end steakhouses are a new phenomenon in the UK at least.
But Goodman and Hawksmoor amongst others are filled with Americans too.
Though there’s no question that Scottish lobsters trounce those from North America, as do those from Brittany and Cornwall.
Post #80 Post by Bill Klapp » 14 Jan 2014 18:58
andreadago wrote:
Bill Klapp wrote:
It is hard, probably impossible, to beat the best U.S. beef.
And why should it be so? better than the best Danish beef, than the best French beef, than the best Spanish beef, I, D, NOR, …
You just don’t know and can’t say.
You are taking your acquired taste and make it absolute, not so different in logic with what Steve is doing with cooking…
Hey, easy! I may never eat another U.S. steak! You are right. There is beef from many places that I have not tasted. And nothing is ever the best because simply it comes from America, sayeth the ex-pat. (Well, nothing but worldwide economic collapse caused by greedy, irresponsible bankers. There are some contenders here, in France and in Great Britain, but they are amateurs compared to Wall Street’s own!) But seriously…Americans are among the top per capita beef consumers on earth, and have devoted a lot of energy to producing the best beef that they can. But we need to add the top two beef-eating countries, Uruguay and Argentina, to the list…
Post #136 Post by Bill Klapp » 15 Jan 2014 13:31
Russell Faulkner wrote:
Not sure what steak has to do anything, but steak in Europe generally is a different beast to the US. Corn vs grass, different cuts etc.
If you expect a huge slab with lots of sweet fat and soft texture you will be disappointed.
Russell, what have you found to be the best beef in Europe? I no longer eat a lot of beef, but like any American ex-pat, I will hanker for a huge, charcoaled hunk of prime, well-aged beef, and would probably be willing to travel around Europe to find it. Andrea, you should weigh in on this also. To me, the aging is key, and I see no evidence in my neighborhood that aging carries much value here…
Post #137 Post by Russell Faulkner » 15 Jan 2014 13:43
Bill, best for steak, personally I like those sourced from O’Sheas (though I’ve lost track of the split between tho two founders), and Ginger Pig. That’s in London, outside there are a large number of decent butchers but it becomes very region specific.
I haven’t lived in the UK for two years so might be out of touch.
Off course steak is just one method, for casseroles, daubed etc one wants something different and I find grass fed much better suited for depth of flavour.
Post #139 Post by andreadago » 15 Jan 2014 15:50
Bill Klapp wrote:
Russell Faulkner wrote:
Not sure what steak has to do anything, but steak in Europe generally is a different beast to the US. Corn vs grass, different cuts etc.
If you expect a huge slab with lots of sweet fat and soft texture you will be disappointed.
Russell, what have you found to be the best beef in Europe? I no longer eat a lot of beef, but like any American ex-pat, I will hanker for a huge, charcoaled hunk of prime, well-aged beef, and would probably be willing to travel around Europe to find it. Andrea, you should weigh in on this also. To me, the aging is key, and I see no evidence in my neighborhood that aging carries much value here…
Bill,
just a couple of addresses, both east of Milan, direction Brescia.
http://www.ristorantemacelleriamotta.it/ Motta is a butcher, with the mania of beef aging.
Osteria Il Vecchio Larry in Pontoglio (Brescia), he has meats from various sources.
Andrea D’Agostino
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