Admittedly I haven’t trawled through this whole thread but I’m a bit puzzled as to why this is an issue.
When I’m the host I always have all the wines planned and prepped for the evening so never open anything on the night that’s been brought as a gift.
If it’s pants it gets used for cooking, if it’s decent stuff it gets drunk at some point in the future, and if it’s a trophy wine (someone recently came for dinner with Leoville Las Cases 61 and 04 in tow!) I make a point of saying I’ll have them round in the future and make sure we cook a suitable accompaniment.
So the guests did not have any expectation of those bottles being opened that night? Clearly something that probably should have discussed prior when you’re talking bottles of that caliber…but i feel like I’d be super disappointed if i brought those to drink with the host and they did not get opened, ha!
If you want the bottle available during your visit, open it beforehand, say you wanted to let it breathe so it would show the best for the group.
I often bring one to share that evening (cork already pulled) and one for the host to have as a thank you gift (cork not pulled). Though the host is free to decide to open the latter one if he or she wants.
It would have been a crime to open either LLC as our main course that evening was a summery, tomato-heavy Provencale dish. So we said we would invite them back in the autumn for a rib of beef or something similar which would do the wines justice.
I hope Juan’s English pal a couple of posts above takes the same approach with his Vega Sicilia.
Yeah, looking at your own framework and being “puzzled” how anybody else could possibly operate differently is definitely missing something. If hosting entails what you’re describing, then that’s great and what you mentioned works. But that’s not necessarily how everybody else hosts.
Fair point. And looking back at the OP I notice that he says opening the guest’s bottle of wine is ‘the polite thing to do.’
Is it? I would have said the opposite. Any gifts (wine, flowers, chocolates) are gratefully accepted and generally put to one side.
Curious if this is just different strokes for different folks as you imply or whether it’s more of a cultural divide between the US and UK ways of doing things.
I think it really depends on your setting… We have a lot of wine dinners where the host is cooking and providing the space, but all guests are bringing bottles to open. Granted, those are not “gifts” and the expectation is made clear ahead of time.
When we attend dinners with non-wine friends but are bringing a bottle, then my experience is that the wine gets opened about 50-70% of the time, although possibly because they know we are into wine and expect the bottle to be quite good… Sometimes I also ask if I can bring wine as a contribution to the dinner (others may bring a dessert, for example), so that sets the expectation that it will be consumed.
As Andy has said, it very much depends on the context and setting. If I want to give the host a bottle of wine as a gift, I’ll usually wrap it. If I intend for it to be drunk at dinner, I’ll bring just the bottle. Though I have no issues if the host chooses not to open the bottle and stash it away instead. Either way, the bottle was meant for them.
If I’m hosting and non-wine friends brings wine, I always note I have plenty of wine already opened but suggest that they let me know at what point in the evening they’d like me to open it. If it’s intended as a gift, they usually correct me at that point.
I am with you and amazed that this topic gets such heavy debate every time it comes up. My Emily Post book, which I consulted on this very matter some 25 years ago when it came on alt.food.wine, is quite clear that if you bring a bottle of wine, it is considered a gift for the host to open or not open that evening. And to be fair, this is just my point of view- and based in traditional etiquette which is not always generally followed.
Think about it like this- if you were invited to someone’s home for dinner, would you bring a dish of food with you? Unless the invitation was specifically to a potluck or you were asked/invited to bring a dish, it would be incredibly rude to bring additional food. Same goes for wine.
Yes, there are times and settings where it is more appropriate, but it falls to the guest to confirm in advance with the polite move being to offer to bring a wine for the event, or lacking that- to bring the bottle and present it as a gift, with the host deciding what to do with it.
There are two individuals who I stopped inviting to preset offline tastings because they would always bring their own bottles and just open them right there at the table- even in cases where I had put together and provided very specific flights and pairings because the group was going to examine a particular vertical, horizontal or some other theme. One in particular would always bring a far lesser wine, often in bad condition, and make a point of talking all night about what a great bargain his wine was compared to the rest.
When someone goes to the trouble to arrange a dinner and cover everything, you accept and go with the flow- or you decline the invitation is my feeling.
I think you have a reasonable underlying point and the right intentions, but to me, they are diminished to some degree by the absolutes with which you apply them.
If I’m hosting a non-potluck dinner and a guest showed up with some homemade lumpia to add as an appetizer, or some sliced tomatoes from their garden to add as a side dish, I don’t think, you, I or most reasonable people would consider that “incredibly rude.”
Sure, if they brought their own steak and ate that instead of what you cooked for them, that would be rude.
So there is a reasonable amount of nuance and knowing the people and occasion to it, not just a one size fits all absolute rule.
I feel like in most occasions, if I bring two bottles, one to share and one as a gift to the hosts, and (1) I don’t solely drink from my bottle to the exclusion of wines they are sharing and to the exclusion of others getting to have some of my bottle, and (2) I am prepared to be fine with it if they choose not to serve my “share” bottle, then I feel like I haven’t been rude.
Similarly, if I’m on the other side of that scenario, and let’s say the share bottle my guest brought is something I don’t like, I would still visibly have a small glass of it and thank him or her for having brought it.
I think there are usually ways to make it a win-win rather than an either-or.
I thought I might have responded to this thread but couldn’t find a post, so apologies if I’m repeating myself.
I’m lucky in this regard as the people we entertain most often will never bring “bad” wine, though they are mostly not real wine geeks either. I have one neighbor and friend who has become very interested in wine and has lots of interesting bottles. Generally if we have him and his wife over, I just plan to add whatever he brings to what we drink, and sometimes we coordinate. A few other couples are less geeky but like good wine. I generally look at what they brought and if it’s something special I either work it into what we’re drinking or mark it for future drinking with them. If it’s more casual, like a crisp white, I’ll only open it if we need another aperitif, though sometimes I mark those and bring them back for the same couple.
If I want to do a specific pairing of wines then I just let them know beforehand. Sometimes an extra bottle will show up but I don’t see any issue in putting that one away.
I did have this show up at my house last Friday when my daughter had friends over for a pizza party:
Here is a recent experience that relates to guests bringing wine.
My wife and I were having a combined birthday party. There were 15 people in attendance. Most guests enjoyed and appreciated wine. Only one couple could be described as non wine lovers
A number of magnums were served including a Raveneau MdT magnum. People also brought wine. I told everyone to to help themselves but please use the 100ml measuring glass provided so everyone to would get to enjoy an equal share of the magnums.
I observed one guest significantly over pour the Mdt and I asked her to share with her husband. She did so but was not very happy about it.
Later she said she wanted to take back the wine she bought to the party. I was nonplussed and the wine was nothing special so I said sure. She forgot to take it and then latter her husband texted me asking for the wine back. This couple are serious wine folks with a large cellar.
In hindsight it is my fault as I reckon I should have let her oversized pour of Mdt go and not said anything. She got upset and decided that taking her wine back was the appropriate response!
I was going to ask if we should start a new thread about big self pours. At least, she didn’t pour it out because she didn’t like it.
What wines did she take back?
The point was to make a point about the offense taken. I guess “offence” in New Zealand.
Enforcing pour amounts, even among wine people at a tasting, can be a tricky and uncomfortable thing. I shy away from people-per-bottle numbers at tastings that will put pressure on the pour sizes, just because I don’t want to have to worry about that and what I would do or say.
My FIL always over pours and then drinks fast to get another pour. It forces us to drink fast or miss out. I try to minimize opening better bottles with him.
