I look at the total meal cost. If no one ordered wine off the list they would either have to increase food prices or close. How much I like, and want to support, the establishment is also a factor.
And it helps prevent excessive imbibing!
I do take wine, but it’s more to do with selection than price.
Yes I’d prefer a more European model with relatively higher food prices and lower wine prices but the current business model, along with 25% “tips” is pretty hard wired here.
I would prefer to pay more realistic food prices than feel like I am getting ripped off because I like wine. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Can I ask an honest question here - what parameters do most considered ‘flawed’? TCA is certainly univeral, but everyone has different abilities to detect. What about brett? VA?
Really curious - don’t mean for this to go in another direction but I think the distinction is important because a ‘flaw’ is not always a ‘flaw’ to everyone. And in the case of certain producers or regions - Musar, many Italian wines - higher levels of VA are somewhat ‘expected’ no?
Cheers
Only send back if it is flawed.
+1 Same - Very rare occasion- I did order a glass at Lucian a couple months back and paid $18 for a mediocre glass of young Gamay - bottles of it sits on shelves in town for like $30 a bottle.
Sorry?!!! A berserker goes to a restaurant and doesn’t recognise every single bottle on the list?!!! What madness is this!!!?!!!
Probably any flaw if it’s severe enough, but the only two I’ve ever actually encountered on a restaurant bottle are TCA (a handful of times) and a BTG wine from a bottle that had clearly been open for way too long (once). Brett or VA would have to be pretty OTT for me to reject the bottle, I’d think, if I would at all. I would certainly send a premoxed white Burg back if I encountered one.
With regard to the scenario where a Somm recommends a wine that I don’t like or find that it does not pair well with food, I would probably not say anything unless the Somm/staff asked me if I was enjoying it - in which case I would give my feedback and leave it to the restaurant to respond (does that make me a wine wimp?).
Basiclaly just if the wine is flawed. I could see a circumstance at a high end restaurant if the somm recommends something (after discussion with me where I feel like they have a good understanding of my preferences) and it’s just wildly off base where I might complain – but probably not unless it was off base and the wine just wasn’t enjoyable or interesting.
There’s almost no scenario where I wasn’t either bringing my own wine or making my own selections from a list, so those would generally not be an issue for me.
I cannot remember the last time I didn’t bring my own bottle(s). I would much rather pay the corkage fees.
I think the last bottle I got at a restaurant was the mag of 13 Bouchard urseles we had at the Rhone dinner.
Last summer I went on a double date to a wood fire pizza joint which will remain unnamed. The owner sat us and he appeared to be a bit inebriated, but no judgement, I love the pizza and you do you if you own the place.
I ordered a Vietti Barolo. It took a while to be delivered to our 4 top. Naturally, I ordered another bottle 20 minutes later after we had emptied the bottle. Everyone’s glass still had wine in it, but I wanted to make sure we didn’t run out when the pizza dropped. This time he returned quickly, but failed to present the bottle before topping up our half filled glasses with the new bottle. I would have preferred him to ask first given that it was technically a different bottle, but ok not the end of the world, same wine. He sets the bottle on the table, and walks away. It’s then that I realize he had brought the Vietti Barbera… He had topped up what remained of our Barolo with Barbera…
I grab both bottles, get up from table, chase him down and explain what he had just done. He apologizes and says he will return with the wine we ordered. He returns 10 minutes later after the pizza had been delivered and sets the new bottle on the table, but does not offer to bring us new glassware. Of course I insisted that we get some empty glasses because I’m not going to chug the potion that is currently in front of me. Ok… Everything is right with the world we can enjoy our meal.
40 minutes later when he dropped the check, all three bottles of wine were on the check. I was flabbergasted… He was actually going to force me to make a scene and request that he remove the first two bottles that he had mixed in our glasses. I did and he looked at me like I was crazy but ultimately obliged. Let’s say I’ve never been back. I spent my college years in fine dining so I’ve made my fare share of mistakes, and I like to think it humbled me, but this was next level. That was the last time I had to send a wine back 
It’s a great question. When is a Rhone too bretty to where you would return it? How much early oxidation is enough to return a white? Secondary fermentation fizz in a red wine? VA? Old mustiness?
I don’t have any easy answer, but those are more challenging questions. TCA and heavy oxidation are easy ones.
A good sommelier knows their list, and if a wine is made in an oxidative style, shows brett or VA, is natty, even fiercely acidic, or at a difficult (tight) stage in development, then they it may be prudent for them to mention that, seek buy in from the customer to that aspect, or if the customer looks blankly at mention of those terms, be prepared to explain in lay mans terms. They ought to know their more challenging wines, and whilst I might choose such wines because I enjoy a degree of brett and VA, I’ll not be annoyed by them checking I’m ok with that.
Aussies are typically (but not universally) against Brett/VA. There’s probably greater desire to return affected wines there, and I’d expect sommeliers there to be more proactive in calling it out before a customer commits to a wine.
What’s the point of asking them then? Why not just throw darts at a dart board?
Same. But also we (meaning enthusiasts) often bemoan the fact that wine lists are boring, corporate/distributor specials, look like the mid and upper shelves at the grocery store, etc… and then bring our own wine. So why is a restaurant going to cater to wine geeks if wine geeks bring their own wine? Yes … a chicken/egg thing.
I do find it funny when I’ve done BYOB and the server pours just a bit to see if it’s ok. Can’t send it back anyway!
well if it’s corked maybe you’ll buy a bottle from the list.
I know someone that sent back a wine, as part of a restaurant pairing, at the Inn at Little Washington because the pairing didn’t work. That surprises as one would think they could get it correct. After a bad pairing experience at a place in DC I’ve become much more awry of those.