When do you announce a flawed wine to others, if at all?

[Blake_Brown]

@Mel Hill

Corked bottles are about the only thing I’d point out at
a tasting. Usually, there are others to back up the claim.
Making use of an “I” statement vs a you statement helps
I think this wine is corked vs your bottle is corked!

I’ve have pointed out corked bottles at plenty of commercial tasting where the pourer is slammed and not trying each bottle as they are opened. The look on their face when told that the 3/4’s empty bottle is corked is so sad!

I like your choice of the I statement. It`s not confronting.

[Blake_Brown]

@larry schaffer

Doesn’t this somewhat depend upon the definition of ‘fault’? Not to stir things up too much, but many don’t consider higher levels of VA or any level of Brett a fault whatsoever . . .

Hi Larry, I do consider these as flaws unless there is an intention such as some champagne producers have a somewhat oxidised style.

[Blake_Brown]

@Scott G r u n e r

I have to add, that I have told people that the wine is corked, explained what that means, how it happens, etc… and then have then shrug and drink it anyway.



My worst restaurant experience was at Taillevant in Paris- A clearly heat damaged bottle of CdP that I had to argue with the somm for 10 minutes to get replaced. Her arrogance was palpable.

Amazingly, you state a similar experience I also had at Taillevant only the somm was a male and arrogant.

[Blake_Brown]

@larry schaffer

@Scott G r u n e r

I have to add, that I have told people that the wine is corked, explained what that means, how it happens, etc… and then have then shrug and drink it anyway.



My worst restaurant experience was at Taillevant in Paris- A clearly heat damaged bottle of CdP that I had to argue with the somm for 10 minutes to get replaced. Her arrogance was palpable.

Not surprised. Remember - everyone has a different threshold for detecting it. And that’s when they know what it is!

I agree Larry, our parts per million perception is vastly different from one to another and in general, the ladies shine here as I usually yield to my wife when in doubt. She picked up a corked wine across the kitchen when I opened a bottle that was corked.

[Blake_Brown]

@Anton D

@Blake Brown

@Scott G r u n e r

My wife and I are pretty sensitive to corked wine- If served a corked wine by a friend- I usually start with some leading questions… i.e. “does this smell a bit musty to you too?” or “I am getting a bit of a wet cardboard smell, do you get that too?”… Then I double check with my wife to make sure I am not crazy and say- “I think this one might be corked/damaged/etc.” often with a description of what that means, how it happened, etc.

At a restaurant, I am somewhat direct and tell them the wine is corked and I’d like another bottle. At wine-shops or professional tastings, I tell them right away and suggest they open a new bottle as the customers/tasters are unlikely to purchase after tasting that one.

I love the use of Socratic questioning for the first example. It`s very effective.

Great points.

At any wine nerd ‘official tasting,’ I don’t mention anything about flaws until the ‘share your thoughts’ portion of the show after people have been able to form their own opinion.

I also appreciate the socratic approach.

I used to be a member of a tasting group in San Francisco and we had a member who would habitually do two asswipey things…

1. Shout out which “number” wine he caught any flaws in while we were still working through a flight, and…
   
   
   I CAN RELATE. WE`VE GOT ONE OF THOSE AS WELL.

[Brian_Tuite]

I’ve had a few occasions at wine events where a wine being poured was corked. Inform the person pouring the wine and they just shrug and keep pouring.

[Joe_S]

I think a lot of folks are in the same camp on most of these situations. I also use it as a way to teach, but only those receptive of knowing why some wine is not good. Ignorance ins bliss.

[Blake_Brown]

@Joe S.

I think a lot of folks are in the same camp on most of these situations. Not to drift the thread too much…

What is your tolerance level of TCA where you will continue to drink and not mention it? (if the wine tastes okay, can you get past the smell?)

What is your tolerance level of Brett where you will continue to drink and not mention it? (many wines are acceptable with some Brett)

What is your tolerance level of oxidation where you will continue to drink and not mention it? (many older wines are intentionally oxidized to some extent)

What is your tolerance level of VA where you will continue to drink and not mention it? (this is my toughest (nail polish remover?) to pickup, so I may blow past this one typically)

Let me know if this should be a different thread as it is related but not the same…

Joe, great questions and one I think would be better served by being a separate thread. It would reach out to those who do not go here.

I`ve got some answers for you.

[lleichtman]

I have zero tolerance for TCA so will mention that I think it is corked. Anyone else other than a restaurant or wine shop is free to do with what they want with the information. VA I also have a low threshold and I don’t know anyone that likes VA in their wines. Brett is another matter altogether and it is entirely someone’s Brett tolerance. I can tolerate a modest amount but my wife likes none. If a restaurant serves me a flawed wine with TCA or VA, I want a replacement and will not hesitate to say so. I have sent wines back that were flawed and have even taken a few back to wine stores when I can prevent my wife from just throwing it away.

[Richard_Albert]

I pick up flaws such as brett and TCA readily, some folks do not.
I figure the longer folks do not realize the wine is flawed, the more embarrassing it can be for them, especially if they comment positively on it. The more special the wines at a dinner or party setting are, the better to let others know early in the going.
Someone deliberately bringing an off bottle to a gathering is rare and obscene, so why not let it be know when it is not their fault. If done gently and matter of factly, nobody’s feelings should be hurt. You do not know, until the cork is pulled and off bottles are common.
Political/polite correctness can be taken too far and into most informal wine situations is too far, IMO.

However, a serious tasting is another story with different dynamics and goals depending on the group.
Be aware, there is at least one tasting group, The Wine Weasels, which revels in perverting traditional tasting conventions. We allow table talk and encourage all comments about the wines, truthful or not, anytime while working through flights of rarities double blind. The first comments are usually how bad some brown bagged oldies are showing. We have been doing it for over 30 years and we have a rowdy blast. Before you condemn our approach, know that one winery owner, well liked and mentioned here, has been tasting with us for over ten years and another of this community’s favs wants to join us next time. We have learned to screen for broomstick smugglers and the humorless. Fermented grape juice rules, not the affected attitudes around it.
Pleasure comes in many forms, nyet?

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

@Marcus Dean

If someone serves me a flawed wine from their cellar and they dont say anything then I dont either.
If Im in a tasting group enviroment then I will comment on the wine.
If I order a bottle of wine and it comes to the table faulty I send it back

+1

[Richard_Albert]

“If someone serves me a flawed wine from their cellar and they dont say anything then I dont either”
Please explain, I am still missing the point, why not say something?

[Barry_Paul_Price]

I like the word “Announce” here. Like this guy comes in…

NkD0MxNY_Bw

Then I say “I PROCLAIM THIS WINE FLAW-ED!!!”

[TimK]

@Richard Albert

… We have learned to screen for broomstick smugglers and the humorless. Fermented grape juice rules, not the affected attitudes around it.
Pleasure comes in many forms, nyet?

That’s a new one for me, what does ‘broomstick smuggler’ mean??

BTW, our group does much the same as you, less formalities and less silence, more chat and discussion. I suppose there can be power of suggestion influences, sometimes one end of the table likes a wine while the other end deems it poor or faulty, but it all works well for us.

[Anton_D]

Broomstick smuggle = Stick up butt.

[GregT]

All approaches can work. I was in one group where most of the people were in the business and knew way more about wine than I. They preferred not to talk about the wine but to talk about everything else under the sun until everyone was finished evaluating the wine. That was my favorite approach. In several other groups, they talked about the wine from the get-go. But I never felt it was important to announce a flaw - they should be able to figure it out for themselves. Unless someone was going on too much about a wine that was obviously bad.

And turns out there are all kinds of possible flaws, some of which don’t even exist. The best was one guy insisting that one stave of a barrel had been bad and that he could detect it in the wine.

[Ian_Sutton]

Lots of good stuff here. Some thoughts in addition:

• It’s not what you do, but the way that you do it. If the person feels like you’ve embarrassed them in public, or ridden roughshod over their views (they may disagree), then the wine may be accepted as faulty, and you accepted as a wine geek jerk.

• Help remove the mystique. Whether through talking about the indicators first as Scott suggested, or being open there may be a problem, but inviting others to voice an opinion, you open the way for a discussion or just a conversation on the potential fault. Experienced wine enthusiasts won’t have to ‘correct you’ if they think you are wrong, whilst those without exposure to or understanding of wine faults may appreciate a discussion and walkthrough of that fault and how you spot it. Wine is full of opinionated people (see Greg’s example above), so why not offer more than just your opinion it is faulty, by easing people through the thought processes.

[Dave_English]

Our tasting group is pretty mutually respecting, so no-one is fussed if someone brings it up. Saves it going around the table and being poured out and then having to rinse your glass yadda, yadda.

I’ll usually ask the person next to me first up and then ask the ‘super’ TCA types we have in the group who can pick it up at low levels.

Who wants to leave with a bad impression of a wine like that - they’ll probably never buy the wine again if they think that is how it is supposed to taste (if no-one says anything)

[David_Bu3ker]

Within my more formal tasting group there are only 3 (out of 8) people who seem sensitive to TCA, me, and other geek and a wine shop owner. One of the guys in the group, who has been seriously into wine since about 1970, claims to have never encountered a corked bottle. So anyway, if I detect it, I will call it out in that setting.

The other tasting group is pretty loose and we general say whatever we want whenever we want, so I always call out faults.

I always, always point out a flawed wine in a restaurant.

Yesterday I had to point out a corked wine (only 1 thankfully) to a rep for a highly respected wine import/distribution company, while the winemaker was standing next to him. Winemaker poured a splash of the wine, wrinkled his nose and pulled the half used bottle.

[ChrisMcElligott]

If someone has the nerve to serve me a flawed wine i bring it their attention by pouring it out…and I dont mean down the sink! Then I announce to the group that if anyone here is enjoying this plonk, to Please excuse yourself from the group immediately! Thats acceptable behavior right?