What to expect from 1995 and 1996 BAMA

WINE TALK
61

Sorry, meant BAMA

62

No. I just canceled an order for BAMA 2005 from a private UK cellar. If anybody wants it PM me. I think it came to about $90 a bottle.

63

i really liked 52 Haut Brion and it cost me $100. [pillow-fight.gif]

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Francois tells me the BC 111,122 was fine. It was from when the continents were fused together.

65

Had the 1995 recently, this thread inspired me to open a 1996 I had on deck. I also preferred the ā€˜95, but found both to be fine juice. The ā€˜96 definitely needed a couple hours to open up, and while I found it subtle, it wasnā€™t thin or weedy. Cork was in decent, not pristine condition, so YMMV.

66

Havenā€™t had the 95 or 96, but I thought the 00 was terrific. Still in a lighter, leaner, earthier style, but after 3-4 hrs of air, the 00 really started showing a sneaky depth and persistence.

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I actually do have the 1963ā€¦

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This is hilarious subthread. I was about to thank Craig for his post (very American humor) until I saw Williamā€™s sly responses. [cheers.gif]

Back to thread, Iā€™m looking forward to opening a recently purchased ā€˜95. Is there too much sediment to open after carrying on a flight? Weā€™re visiting our ā€˜95 kid soon so itā€™d be fun.
Regards,
Peter

69

I still think 1996 is a micron better than 1995. After 48 hours exposure to air
And you can still expect them to be sold out soon [cheers.gif]
[media] CJ on Instagram: "BAMA battle" [/media]

70

Looks like I will never understand BAMA. Last bottle of 1995, and horribly corked. Three failures out of four, and one decent wine, but at the price point, well below average.

71

Major bummer, sorry you have had this poor experience.

Now that said, given your propensity to hoard massive quantities of wine you like, perhaps this is a victory for us little peons.

[snort.gif]

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72

I think I get Mark. Sort of.

Iā€™ve only had 3 BAMAs in my life, all included in old-school Bordeaux dinner themes that Iā€™ve gone to and all contributed by other attendees who are major classic-Bordeaux-heads. While I always find the BAMAs to be good and scored them almost always on the relative high end, at the end of the day when we tally and rate the fallen bottles, without any argument from anyone, the BAMAs never figure in the conversation of the best half of the wines for the dinner. The BAMAs seem to get lost and mixed-in with the innocent pedestrian bystanders while the Magdelaines, Canon, Haut Bailly, Rauzan Segla, DdC, Beychevelles take center stage when reviewing the best for the night.

I think that while BAMA are good (sometimes I wish I even have 1 of the very good 1970 drank last October), they donā€™t resonate with classic Bordeaux drinkers enough to topple the acknowledged traditional ones.

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73

Sorry Mark re bad bottles (but canā€™t really fault the property for the corked one, no one was immune from TCA). I enjoy BAMA and own a few, ranging from 1970 to 2009. I certainly understand how the lack of stylistic change is attractive in a era where so many classic estates have made marked changes. But, like Ramon, I have to say when I have paired BAMA in flights of its peers, not usually a contender. Iā€™ve enjoyed several bottles of the '70 at home with a roast chicken. But when at a wine dinner (Ramon was there) a perfectly fine bottle of '70 BAMA was easily passed by the 70 Haut Bailly, and lapped by the '70 DDC. I donā€™t know what terroir is like at BAMA, but winemaking is only part of equation. That said, I realize a lot of experienced people like more than me. Which means I no longer see mature BAMA at prices that I am willing to pay, but thatā€™s fine.

74

Iā€™ll add my additional two centsā€¦ I had a 2000 for my first Bama, and I was distinctly underwhelmed especially for the money. A certain BAMA enthusiast reassured me and said to try again, which I did and a second bottle was stellar after a couple of hours of air and easily a great value at the $50 I reloaded it for. But even that bottle Iā€™d prefer to enjoy on its own, given how dry and earthy it was at first. But given time, it wove a beautiful spell and pulled off a soil-to-glass transfer like few othersā€¦ I know you guys arenā€™t afraid of an earthy wine, so Iā€™d chalk it up to good bottles and all that.

75

I think the pleasure in BAMAs (or at least my pleasure in them) is something like the sense that one is getting bordeaux stripped down to its essentials. I donā€™t think it would win any tasting, blind or not, because other kinds of pleasures have their attractions. And I wouldnā€™t deny that some of the pleasure in BAMA (again for me), therefore, is somewhat notional and doesnā€™t accord with the Parker criterion of whatā€™s in the glass. Iā€™m Ok with that, just as Iā€™m OK with other criteria that are not purely about in the glassness.

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76

Perhaps it was having high expectations and the wine not meeting them.

But also three of the bottles were flawed, both of the 1996s, which apparently is not unusual, and the corked 1995. So my only real taste was from a bottle that I opened to replace the bad 1996s. No air time, and although it showed signs of improvement as the evening wore on, at best was a 90 point wine.

77

Very well said, I agree completely.

I donā€™t know if Mark is in blind tasting groups, but it would be fun if someone put a good vintage BAMA into one for him (and after having screened it before to see that itā€™s a sound bottle) one of these days.

To be clear, Iā€™m not implying that the experiences he had were not honest and open minded. I know they were. But after some combination of flawed bottles, off bottles, and less ideal vintages, it makes perfect sense that he has the opinion he does of the producer, and as such, a blind tasting pour of a good one would be fun for him to experience.

And youā€™re right, itā€™s not going to be WOTN in some tasting of prestigious Bordeaux from good vintages and all ā€“ maybe it would have a chance if it were against others at a similar price point (the price seems to vary a lot given how rare these are, but Iā€™ve paid $55-70 a bottle for mine, vintages 95, 96, 00, 04 and 10).* But I think Mark would enjoy it.


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  • Boy, I took a quick look for examples, and how far down do you have to go to find Bordeaux at current retail from vintages like 95, 96, 00 and 10 that are in the $55-70 price range? You canā€™t buy Cantemerle, Lagrange, Lafon Rochet, Ferrier, Sociando Mallet, Larrivet Haut Brion and producers like that for that little.
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78

Iā€™m in full agreement with you here. Itā€™s the same reason why many a Chablis perform very poorly in white Burgundy blind tastings - they are often quite lean, austere and stripped-down in comparison. Yet in a right setting - and especially on their own, with a thought-through food pairing - they just sing. And even if most of Chablis doesnā€™t really stand against heftier white Burgundy in a blind tasting, I still donā€™t see people saying theyā€™re dull, underwhelming and not worth the tariff.

In most cases BAMA isnā€™t a wine to win blind tastings. Itā€™s a comfort wine to which you can return to when you are bored of the glossy modern Bordeaux with all the makeup and stuffing.

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79

Yes, absolutely. BAMA is an idiosyncratic, artisanal, singular wine made on his own by an old fellow using old methods. It does not correspond to todayā€™s criteria. Itā€™s not a wine everyone will like for those reasons. Even with lovers of traditional wines, some will like it, some will not and in a line-up of wines costing double its price its elegance will be smothered and its faults, which are part of its authentic charm, will show.
I have only tried it alongside a Giscours, a Dauzac and a Brane-Cantenac and each time, it compared well, but I think comparing it is somehow missing the point - I would never suggest that itā€™s the best wine in the world because it isnā€™t, but it gives me a pleasure that more lauded wines cannot give, one which brings me back to the pleasure that similarly ā€œflawedā€ wines of the 70s gave me when I started getting into wine.
Having said that, I would certainly say that in some vintages, like 98 and 03, itā€™s the best Margaux I have had.

Edit: Otto posted his just before me but obviously I agree with him.

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80

All the descriptors seem to point to a wine I should like. Forgetting the flawed bottles, I had the one 1995, and there are reasons it might not have shown well. It was opened abruptly, and had little time in the decanter, and we began drinking soon after. I often do this, when I have not chosen a bottle, and grab something from the cellar, and. they usually show better than this.

What I had hoped for was an interesting slightly funky wine with real character and complexity. I got neither; instead I had a fairly pleasant but slightly insipid wine, one that opened up over the course of a couple of hours but still seemed simple. Nothing wrong with the wine, and we finished the bottle, but nothing to suggest I should buy another. I am sure having written this, I do have friends who will blind taste me on it, and I look forward to that if it happens.

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