Hi Chris
The term may mean different things to different people. FWIW I wouldn’t consider 4-6 people to fit that … unless that was them drinking 10-12 bottles over an evening. Not that people shouldn’t do that if they want, but after halfway, they may not appreciate the finer points of what they are drinking.
My challenge is that our cognitive function is impaired by alcohol, so whilst we might think that we’re going to detect the subtle differences of terroir, or see the true majesty of the wines, we’re probably kidding ourselves after consuming a modest subset of the wines lined up for the evening. That counts equally well for those large ‘scrum’ walkround tastings, where logistically it’s possible to taste 70-100 wines, but where I recognise my judgement will become impaired.
I expect people are referring to events like Paulee, or similar events on a smaller scale.
Personally, I find the derisive comments about the big events slightly frustrating. They may not be for everyone, but they can also be a lot of fun and let people taste some amazing wines. Some of my greatest wine experiences have been at Paulee, for example - Christome Roumier pouring me from a magnum of his wines, a glass of 1980 Leroy grand crus; those are great experiences and I’m very glad I went. Most people on this forum own a lot of wine - it can be drunk in different circumstances.
Lot of great points have been mentioned in this thread. To add to Scott’s point, this pandemic has shown that an opportunity to drink a bottle of wine with someone in person isn’t guaranteed so celebrate the times you can get together with your best bottles.
I’ll just add that what you don’t want to do is open one of your best bottles (however you define that) with someone who doesn’t appreciate wine. The other person can have a different palate, but if they don’t have an interest in wine, there’s no sense opening up something that won’t be appreciated. You may think you can convert your “whiskey only” friend with a bottle of your best red wine, but odds of that happening are pretty slim. You can open some of your other wines that aren’t as special to try to open their eyes to the world of wine.
I don’t think anyone would say they can’t be fun or a source of memories. The OP is wondering about what to do with his few treasures that he is most excited to try. Its fair to warn him that such events are not often the best way to enjoy a particular bottle.
If someone has a few specials bottles they have done diligence in keeping their hands off while cellaring for many years, taking to an event where they might be forgotten amongst the trees is sound advice in mine and many others experience. It is certainly something that should be weighed by anyone wondering about what to do with their special bottles.
It certainly can be the case that a particular bottle can be the ticket to try many wines a person would not be able to on their own. It can also be the case they feel as though they cherished a bottle for years only to have faint memories of having consumed it in a night of bacchanalia.
I don’t want to sidetrack this thread too much, so will give my view and others can respond as they like.
The above opinion (which isn’t uncommon), clearly indicates that some posters think large events are a suboptimal way of drinking prized wine. That’s totally valid, but I would caution against phrasing it as just “sound advice” when it’s actually a preference. I could equally caution the OP against opening the bottle solo or with a friend after a lot of excitement only for that bottle to be corked. (This happened to me recently after a prized bottle at a dinner for 4 was ruined by TCA, and it definitely marred an otherwise really fun evening.) It’s all relative and depends on one’s perspective and what one wants.
If the OP had specified that he wants to know how best to open a specific bottle and enjoy it himself to the maximum amount possible, a big dinner is obviously not ideal. But the OP did not. In which case cautioning him against his bottle being lost in the overall dinner should be balanced against what other things he might drink there or the experience he might have. The OP has a bottle of Mouton. Would he rather drink it solo or bring it to a Mouton vertical where he can compare it to other vintages? I have no idea! I’d love to do both, personally, and both can be a great source of pleasure and fun. So warning the OP that his wine might get lost in a bigger tasting should, in my opinion, be considered against what he might gain from that kind of event otherwise.
Hi Noah, since you said you only have a few of these wines, this definitely affects my following advice: In your circumstance, these special wines are most likely to be best enjoyed in smaller groups where the wine is the centre piece and everyone has time to try the wine more than once as it develops over the course of the evening.
The larger groups events have their place; but (IMO) only if you have multiple bottles of each of special wines. If you have (for example) a singleton of Mouton Rothschild and you take it to a large vertical dinner of Mouton, I would say there is a high to very high chance it will get lost on the scrum. Whereas the same wine drunk in its own may be magnificent. I have had this exact experience several times.
So, my advice is; find a small group (no more than 4-6 people) and really enjoy the wine and allow it to show its best
The Bacchanalian blow outs are fine if you limit it to four or five bottles and 4-6 people. I think many of us have been to incredible events where great wines are left when something new appears. At one La Paulee, I saw people trashing Rousseau to fill the glass with La Tache.
We used to organize an annual Over the Top lunch, and although they tended to last six to eight hours with an average of two bottles each, there was still significant wastage. So we stopped, and limited the wines and the number of people.
The goal for a wine dinner should be or actually must be that if you are going to serve great wines, to be able to give each wine as much chance as possible to show itself. You might find that the best way to do that is to share with someone you love over an evening. Or enjoy a lunch with friends each bring a special wine.
Occasionally, I will promise to open a particular bottle with a particular person - I honor that.
Otherwise, Diane and I drink them when we feel like it.
I have a friend whom I’ve known since we were 9 years old. He has an excellent palate, from baking & being a scotch enthusiast. I bring the very nicest bottles from my cellar when we eat together because I know he’ll find them interesting, and we have a fun time discussing them even if he doesn’t choose to accumulate them for himself. Lately he has fallen down the white Burgundy rabbit hole, to my great gratification (I might have given a helpful nudge or two)
I don’t think we would have experienced quite as much pleasure from our dinners over the years if I had picked less special bottles because of him being a wine neophyte
My pinnacle opening time for my ‘greatest’ wines that I want to open is typically in a group of 4 to 6 people. I want everybody to get a change to really have a good pour to enjoy the wine properly and not stress about a 1-2 ounce pour.
In that context, I only have abou6 bottles that I would still not open: ‘one ofs’ that I feel the need to keep sitting on. Otherwise, it’s truly anything goes.
The accompanying food can range from Carl’s Jr. Super Star (great with Lynch Bages) all the way to the best we can cook. No set rules on that.
Sometimes, the wine spirit fills me with great joy and it’s that moment to run down and find a properly momentous bottle to share with my wife and kids, or with another couple or two.
There are even times when a bottle I have utterly forgotten about will awaken from its slumbers and call out to me to come find it and celebrate its apotheosis!!!
So, bottom line: 1) I do aim for smaller numbers of drinkers for these wines. 2) Don’t ignore the universe or the wine when it announces to you that it’s time for rapturous enjoyment.
Best bottles always saved to open with wine friends - if they deliver, you’ll want to talk about 'em and reminisce about 'em, which you can’t do without witnesses.
Best of the best, though, not to be opened for any group larger than 4.
Hi Yao
That feels like you’ve spotted the subtle distinction between someone drinking to be polite, from someone drinking because it’s interesting - but they’ve got enough of a focus on their own hobby that they don’t need additional diversification in their own collecting. So bravo, and your friend is probably an awful lot more relaxed about ordering wine in restaurants because of it.
Of course I could also call you out for inflicting the cost of an interest in White Burgundy on another person. (very much said in jest)
****I don’t want to sidetrack this thread too much, so will give my view and others can respond as they like.
The above opinion (which isn’t uncommon), clearly indicates that some posters think large events are a suboptimal way of drinking prized wine. That’s totally valid, but I would caution against phrasing it as just “sound advice” when it’s actually a preference. I could equally caution the OP against opening the bottle solo or with a friend after a lot of excitement only for that bottle to be corked. (This happened to me recently after a prized bottle at a dinner for 4 was ruined by TCA, and it definitely marred an otherwise really fun evening.) It’s all relative and depends on one’s perspective and what one wants.
If the OP had specified that he wants to know how best to open a specific bottle and enjoy it himself to the maximum amount possible, a big dinner is obviously not ideal. But the OP did not. In which case cautioning him against his bottle being lost in the overall dinner should be balanced against what other things he might drink there or the experience he might have. The OP has a bottle of Mouton. Would he rather drink it solo or bring it to a Mouton vertical where he can compare it to other vintages? I have no idea! I’d love to do both, personally, and both can be a great source of pleasure and fun. So warning the OP that his wine might get lost in a bigger tasting should, in my opinion, be considered against what he might gain from that kind of event otherwise.****
My preference is not to open too many bottles of my best wines at one time. I prefer to open them when in the company of people who will appreciate them, whether because they are wine lovers, wine curious, or even if they are people dear to me who will pay attention even if wine is not their thing, because they know I am giving them my best.
I remain open to events where many great bottles are opened, but prefer at least 2 ounces (better 3) per person, so no more than a dozen people maximum unless there are multiple bottles of each wine. If I am putting on a tasting, I set a limit of no more than one bottle per person. This is just common sense. No taster, no matter how expert or experienced, will be able to appreciate the nuances of a fine wine after consuming more than a bottle (if there is such a thing as a ‘super-metabolism’ that negates this truism, please post).
These are my personal preferences. Everyone is of course free to choose their own venues and limits. If you are opening great wine, please feel free to invite me even if your format is different. I am not just increasingly old, I’m increasingly set in my ways, but try to get past that.
May just be me, I’m more careful about the wine pairing and food that will be served than the group per se. best food wine pairings make for memorable evenings - company of course is important. Usually I keep my wine in mind and regardless of the setting and remember the experience of savoring the bottle. Of course you can have more of your favorite wine to drink and enjoy personally when there are less people; Depends on what you find the most memorable way to enjoy your cellar treasures.
I mean that just depends how long the tasting is; you do metabolize alcohol over time so a 6 hour event in theory you could metabolize a bottle worth of alcohol.
I do not get locked into any formula, as I like to be fairly spontaneous, but drinking with like-minded friends is generally the best. I really liked what me, Todd, Carnes, Kane and Jorge did recently, which was a weekend of “bring your best shit”. We had some loosely coordinated flights, which included 1982 Bordeaux, then a mini-Rhône flight, and a mix of other odds and ends. John K brought a ton of remarkable champagne. Some nice Whisky, too. At first I suspected this would be overkill, but it was not. If anything, if gave you the ability to assess comparatively some great bottles and witness which cream rose to the top.
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****I don’t want to sidetrack this thread too much, so will give my view and others can respond as they like.