What is this flaw?

Or maybe a couple factors combined that are mentioned above… or the very beginning stages of a secondary ferment, but that would also be found in the nose and in the mid palate (if you are tasting as opposed to drinking)…

Sounds a bit like acrolein. I’ve only ever seen in once. Wine fault - Wikipedia

Pine nuts?!?!? :slight_smile:

I haven’t had Chinese pine nuts in years. I am very careful about that. Some things are worth paying extra for.

I don’t know why I didn’t check Cellar Tracker prior to just now but turns out the same wine has had a few notes reporting the same thing. They are a minority of the notes so either its a taster dependent issue which I doubt or something that developed in the bottle.

I think the bacteria answer makes the most sense.

I’m aware of that but sometimes the olfactory part of my brain seems to confuse nail polish and burnt matches. Don’t know why. And, the mapping of taste buds can be very individualistic and not as simple as many texts seem to imply. The Tongue Map: Tasteless Myth Debunked | Live Science

Hold the wine presses …this bottle could have too much CO2 in it thus the sting …CO2 is a carboxylate an acid macro splash the wine twice …I mean big air twice you will lower the bitter acidic taste that sting …I still would bet the bottle is fine just it needs a kick in the arse to break up 300 to 500 mg of CO2 … Or you will bring out the flaw TCA ETC …

Did you ears turn red, face slight flush?

Very interesting. I just opened a 2011 from one of my favorite producers and it had a very similar effect. Pretty nose, good color, good mid-palate, but the finish, was really REALLY short (from a fruit and tannin standpoint) and then all that was left was this bitterness. This particular winery has stem inclusions on almost all of their wine so I attributed it to stems but it still is confusing since 2011 was such a delicate/light vintage and I wondered how it could have happened.

Tannin, particularly stem inclusion, seems like the most likely. I’ve not heard of TCA having that effect nor any sort of fault/flaw but maybe a winemaker will chime in :slight_smile:

CO2 will sting , tannin will bind with saliva and the sting diminishes … I still am leaning on the CO2 theory until you can identify a common flaw … Blast the bitch with big air macro splash the CO2 out and you lose the coca cola sting … Many of you see a bubble in your white wines, right this is CO2 and it lifts aroma … We need it , in white slightly more CO2 is retained to lift aroma… In reds sometime the wine will be reductive and sting when it’s starving for oxygen … When decanted (macro splash) lots of foam CO2 is rendered a gas expelled thus leaving your wine less acidic and you experience more fruit… But what do I know … I only been making wine for a living for a short time 17 years …

Salute !!!

I’m sorry but there are plenty of Pinot Noirs that have been corrected with copper that don’t show excessive addition. It’s a tool, and correctly applied is not something one notices, as Brian pointed out in his data point where it did not show a presence he could detect even though he was told it was there.

The key word is “overused”, and then it leaves a distinct bitter aspect in the wine that lingers for considerable time. It also would most likely have been added just prior to bottling as CUSO4 will also drop out of a wine over time in elevage.

Not to imply that it’s not bacterial or possibly some other vector. Without more intimate knowledge of the production there’s only listing possibilities and guessing.

If you combine stems and a low level TCA taint(at or below threshold) the wine will seem extremely bitter. As the TCA will still inhibit the fruit while not showing overt TCA. However, Brian tasted again the next day and TCA usually becomes more noticeable with air, so he most likely would have seen it as TCA on day two.

None noticed.

I dumped the wine after day 2, so can’t experiment with it. That said, when I removed the stopper on day two it gave a slight pop which could indicate that it was giving off excess CO2. I discounted it as I have tasted many wines (red and white) with excess CO2 early in their life (home winemaker) and found no resemblance to that experience.

Did you pick up the bitterness on the finish or did it show up after what would be the normal finish? One of the reasons I found this to be so unique is that in my bottle is that the bitterness appeared after what I would consider the normal finish. Again it is hard to properly describe but the best I can do is that when I would retry it, I would get through the taste and think, OK its fine now, and then the bitterness would appear. It wasn’t like the peach pit or fruit pith bitterness that I get from some wines on the finish.

Then probably not copper, unless your tolerance is high for it

Next question: did it have a shellack like quality to it?

lets say its just tannins that are harsh … another 7 years and she could be rendered elegant… I heard a story of a winery in OR that grinds the stems up and ferments everything, you can’t touch this wine for 5 to 8 years … and so I am told that this wine is excellent after aging, but prior its a mess… Now what is the producer ??? IIRC it was a PN …

From what I remember, the mid-palate was really short and the bitterness kicked in a few seconds later. There was this strange disjointed gap between the mid-palate/finish and the bitterness. I remember the misses trying it “ohh, hmmm…OHH, weird”. It was perplexing. So much so I went and bought two more bottles and am planning on opening one in 3 years and one in 5 or so.

I’ve experienced bitterness before and it’s usually a part of the finish. The bitterness would start right after you swallow. This bitterness kicked in later.

Marcus’ comment about TCA and stems is really interesting, I didn’t know that. I do have two other bottles to try out. There wasn’t any bad comments on CT about this particular wine either.

I thought Todd was making some strange joke about flushed ears HA!

Thanks Brandon. Yours sounds like the same flaw as mine.