What is a "polished" wine

[Jayson_Cohen]

Seems pretty straightforward that the same term can be positive or negative depending on context, as Fu suggests, although personally it tends to be a negative. Suzanne’s example of Palmer is also the one I was thinking about for its positive connotation for many people. It’s just Palmer can pull it off, and where others try in Bordeaux and Cal Cabs, we all put up our dukes and have the same conversations repeatedly about modern winemaking being too polished.

How polish is in any way not related to one’s perception of a wine’s structure, I can’t fathom and don’t understand, unless we are talking about shoe polish, but that’s something else entirely, an aromatic descriptor. I think of polish as entirely related to texture, how structure is perceived in the mouth. Does anyone have a sense of polish as related to aromatics?

[K_John_Joseph]

Elegance and polish are not the same thing. Using John’s excellent example of shoes… Elegance is the style or design of the shoe, while polish is the sheen.

I get where you’re going, but I’m citing a dictionary, not firing from the hip.

With wine-speak, toss out your normal dictionary. Wine-speak is its own vocabulary. It’s not always the same as normal English.

While I generally agree, I also think that in some instances that’s a complete cop out. You have an extensive and wonderful blog full of notes. You’re not writing solely for your own consumption. If precision is your goal, does it not then make more sense to use applicable pre-existing definitions oft applied to similar subjective interpretations of things like people, dance, food, music, writing, and speech, than manipulating and stretching hypotheticals that happen to use the same word to meet the note you’re trying to convey?

Hell, let’s use the term “elegant” in a similar situation. An “elegant solution” is a solution that is simple and neat and on point. Let’s start referring to simple, neat wines as elegant. Sure, elegant has a much more applicable definition, but when inconvenient, “toss out your normal dictionary. Wine-speak is its own vocabulary. It’s not always the same as normal English.”

Perhaps we should shoot for more normal English. And that’s coming from a lawyer.

[K_John_Joseph]

we all put up our dukes and have the same conversations repeatedly about modern winemaking being too polished.

What does “being too polished” mean?

[Jeff_Leve]

I get where you’re going, but I’m citing a dictionary, not firing from the hip.

With wine-speak, toss out your normal dictionary. Wine-speak is its own vocabulary. It’s not always the same as normal English.

While I generally agree, I also think that in some instances that’s a complete cop out. You have an extensive and wonderful blog full of notes. You’re not writing solely for your own consumption. If precision is your goal, does it not then make more sense to use applicable pre-existing definitions

It’s getting late in Bordeaux, so I’m about to hit it.

True, I don’t write for me. The purpose of the articles on the site are to inform readers about the wines, wineries and people behind the estates I’m most interested in. The tasting notes are to help readers know the best wines to buy, when to pop a cork and what to expect from that wine.

There are numerous online dictionaries explaining wine-speak terminology. We have one on our site Wine Glossary of Terms, Wine Dictionary, Wine Definitions, Wine Words

It might be a bit outdated, as it hasn’t been refreshed for a while. If you or anyone knows terms or phrases we should add, or change, let me know.

IMO, it’s not the job of the writer to change the language of wine-speak to match common usage. The writers job is to use wine-speak correctly. It’s the job of the reader to understand the intent of the meaning from the writer.

I’m not a lawyer, but as you are, I imagine Legalese is much harder to follow than wine-speak.

[K_John_Joseph]

The writers job is to use wine-speak correctly. It’s the job of the reader to understand the intent of the meaning from the writer.

I’m not a lawyer, but as you are, I imagine Legalese is much harder to follow than wine-speak.

Considering that those of us on this forum cannot agree on what “linear” or “polished” means, I’d say what constitutes correct wine speak is open to interpretation. I’d also go out on a limb and say that a wine writer’s job is to convey his impression of a wine in a manner that is clear and easy for the consumer to understand. To the extent that the wine writer can do so, any and all of the time, provided, however, that…oh you get the point.

I hate legalese.

[John_Morris]

What I’m struggling with is the application of a literal term to something that cannot be literally polished. It’s an improper use of an adjective.

No, that’s what’s known as a metaphor, and if you tried to do without them, you’d be, well, close to speechless.

[John_Morris]

I don’t disagree in one way being a more ideal way to learn. But there is value in applying some descriptors to terms - or highlighting differences of use - as shown inherently on this thread.

It’s easy to show the differences. But how would you learn what brett or TCA is like? You might get some clues from reading, but for more metaphorical terms (elegant, big, feminine, or even mineral, which is metaphor, actually), you really need to taste alongside other people so your usage converges.

[John_Morris]

FYI, your post is filled with adjectives borrowed from other more literal contexts, just as “polished” is:

The term “polish” is also defined as “refinement or elegance in a person or thing”. Elegance is almost always used to describe a wine’s general balance and structure and, in wine, structure and texture almost always go hand in hand. For instance, if I placed two glasses of wine in front of you and said A is Rustic while B is Elegant I think you might have a decent expectation of the structure and texture of the wines you were about to taste.

The core, non-metaphorical meaning of 'refinement" has to do with “removing impurities or unwanted elements from a substance,” until one ends up with something refined. But I don’t think a “refined” wine is necessarily the purist one.

“Elegant” means “pleasingly graceful and stylish in appearance or manner.” Same problem. “Graceful” and “stylish” refer to things you can see or, perhaps, hear. These are all metaphorical extensions when applied to wine.

Rustic “relates to the countryside; rural… lacking the sophistication of the city; backward and provincial.” But, for example, the town of Cornas (which I think of being a bit rustic) is about as rural as, say, St. Julien or Gevrey-Chambertin. The easiest way to define it with wine, I think, is to say it’s the opposite of “elegant” or “stylish.”

There’s just no way of getting around metaphors with wine!

[GregT]

I think the term is more easily applied to wine writers than to wine.

For example, John’s erudite and wise commentary is work to emulate. And Alfert’s swashbuckling ease inspires all but the dullest of the dull.

And then OTOH, there are the dunderheads whose lurching attempts at coherence are doomed before the first letters are typed.

[Alan_Rath]

characterized by elegance and refinement (a polished gentleman; polished society); characterized by a high degree of development, finish, or refinement: free from imperfections (a polished performance/performer; a highly polished piece of writing).

This is how I interpret “polished” if someone uses it as a wine descriptor. Just as I would use it to describe a person whose presentations are smooth and seamless (for example). I want to say that a “polished” wine is probably a bit boring; but, just as a “polished” presenter can be highly interesting and entertaining, I think so can a wine - though I suspect that’s a rarity.

[TomHill]

So…let me pose this question.
Would all you experts here describe CharlesShaw Cabernet as a “polished” wine?? To its credit…it displays its terroir… it smells/tastes of Central fruit. That’s why people who worship at the altar of terroir love 2$Chuck Cabernet.
Definitive answer will be provided tomorrow.
Tom

[TomHill]

So…the definitive answer…as promised.
Using my coffee table analogy above. A TonyCoturri Cab would be the one made by the Ozark hillbilly. The “polished” Cabernet
would be the one made by Ridge or DryCreekVnyds. But the CharlesShaw Cabernet is the one made by IKEA…functional, a bit
on the boring side, but pretty industrial in nature.
Hope that helps…but probably not.
Tom

[Chris_Swayze]

I usually view “polished” as the other end of the spectrum from “rustic”. Similar to assessing “body” (light to full). They can be positive or negative terms depending on the wine.

Love this discussion!