What I Hate About Oregon Wine - Gripes from a Fan

WINE TALK
21

For the sake of bandwidth and taking up needless space on the page, I will not quote Roy’s post, but I wish to comment upon it. Roy, it seems that you and well, me for example, are living in parallel but different worlds. Naturally, you see Oregon from the standpoint of a proud producer of huge monster hedonistic Cali cabs. You see Oregon’s future based on the viewpoint of someone knowledgeable in marketing expensive huge monster Cali cabs. And you somehow assume Oregon’s “goal” ought to be similar to the status quo of Napanoma. A lot of us don’t see Oregon’s present or future best case scenario as resembling that of Napa or even the relative backwater of Sonoma. Just wunderin’; would you say all the same things to a fan or producer of Mendocino wine? When you hung out with John Thomas, did he complain about how much money he wasn’t making? Are you suggesting that if Oregon producers were more cunning and crafty, they would have created a Meiomi-Monster by now? Sorry for all these questions, but one more; are you somehow equating quality with sales (i.e. KB has a longer waiting list than John Thomas, so KB is better)?
I thank the Stars and Wine-Gods that ego driven tycoons will not fly their programmed-to-land-at-Screagle helicopters to McMinville for fear of starving or being forced to swallow mediocre non-Michelin rated vittles.

22

My thoughts are more in line with Mitch than with Roy. I would hate to see Oregon change the style of wines they are making and I really love where they lie in the flavor/weight spectrum. Sometimes I crave the sappy “hit” of a California pinot and I see how those accustomed to that would find many OR pinots disappointing. Changing styles to chase sales seems like a good idea in the short run, but I would hate to see us lose the Eyrie style as the benchmark in the long run. But that’s just my taste.

23

agree wholeheartedly with all of this, except for craving CA Pinot. [cheers.gif] If I want CA Pinot, I know where to find it. Hope OR keeps on keeping on.

24

It’s just Hamacher, one M and no Schlemmer . . . although I think you knew that!

25

Bob, just out of curiosity, what’s your take on Patricia Green Cellars (esp. the single vineyard cuvees)?

26

It will be interesting to observe the changes going on here, and there has never been a better time to be a low intervention small producer.

Medium sized? I’d be terrified.

27

In my opinion, The Allison is a better resort experience than ANYTHING in Napa. Or Sonoma. And the rooms are just $350-450, which compared to the top ones here, is way less. Also… if you are a guest there and you need a ride… they just GIVE you one of their fleet of Lexus. For free. No charge. Here is a Lexus GS, enjoy!

Not to mention you are just a few miles from Dundee, which is a fun town.

I have a very vested interest in having collectors come to my neck of the woods, but I think everyone who has been here 2-3 times should make Oregon a stop as a change of pace, just to see how much untapped potential lies there.

28

Let me get in here so it’s not too awkward. I have known Bob for over 20 years and we are definitely good friends as well as ITB. He has bought wine consistently from both Torii Mor and Patricia Green Cellars over that period of time. Few entities of any kind have purchased as much PGC wine as Bob’s business has. Professionally there is no question where he stands on the PGC wines and I believe him when he has told me he enjoys them at a personal level. Individually he may have consumed more of the 2012 Dry Muscat Ottonel than any person on the planet.

He is also likely, over the years anyway, the largest single Oregon based account for at least two or three dozen different Oregon wineries (I am totally guessing but I can’t be off by too much and may be on the low side). I doubt that he would or even should talk specifically about PGC here.

29

First, I would say +a million on Mitch’s post.

I also don’t understand what you mean about Oregon wine country getting going where it needs to, or this untapped potential. What exactly does the Willamette Valley need?

30

Thanks, Jim, I had no idea. Not trying to put Bob on the spot.

31

I still don’t understand the draw of Burgundy. Maybe someday I will have that “it” moment. If I drink pinot, I will stick with Napa, Sonoma as well as northern Cali Pinot. I like the fruitiness and dustiness they bring. I’ve tasted limited Oregon wines and they were not to my liking, with many tasting of pinesol. I’m more of your typical consumer here to let you know that most people like the Napa/Sonoma fruitiness style. Be thankful, this is what allows many producers to also make the niche wines most board members like and it bring people into drinking wine.

P.s. The French wish they had the weather California does. When they have half the weather Napa does, they have those Classic Vintages. People love to hate on Napa and Sonoma, but it sells for a reason. Plus most people want to drink wines today, not wait xxx number of years to see if it develops into anything special. Maybe Oregon will develop into the great midpoint between New and Old World

32

I understand what Robert means about bad Oregon Pinot Noir. I was served one the other night that was goopy, lacked acidity, and reeked of oak. (Made by a California winery, but that is neither here nor there).

Fortunately there are dozens of well made WV Pinots easily found in any of the categories of rich California like, restrained and old world style, or mid-way between the two. While there is money from outside flowing in at an increased rate, there are also locals who are doing it the hard way, learning from the masters, putting in time, and scraping up the funding for small production.

P Hickner

33

This weekend I overheard James Frey being asked by a distributor if he had plans for large increases in production to better accommodate national representation. He said “no” and said he felt he was “in a sweet spot right now.” If he had to scale up to a medium sized winery, he said he wouldn’t have enough time to paint.

1 Like
34

You have a LONG way to go to match some of the vitriol that has been spewed on this board. From one occasional curmudgeon to another, you’re off to a good start. [wink.gif] I suspect that you really have to work at being caustic though. Your writing is engaging; you rarely repeat your modifiers so your words stay fresh and even though you write in the first person you don’t start every sentence with “I”. There’s nothing so annoying on the internet as a writer who uses the same adjective and the word “I” over & over… even if they have a valid point, the repetition bores people. If people knew what your voice sounds like, it would be easy to imagine you addressing a small group of winos with a style like this. I look forward to more of your civilized rants. [cheers.gif]

35

PGC. Quite possibly the definition of a mid-sized winery in Oregon right now due to the size of the 2014 and 2015 harvests. Lots of work at all ends of the winery. I have traveled extensively this year for the winery (Pinot Days in SF this weekend) and grind every day at the winery when I’m in Oregon. It is anxiety inducing. Stay smaller or get big. This is the danger zone.

36

I was tempted to defend my turf, but you guys are doing such a swell job, I will just sit on the side lines and observe. [highfive.gif]

37

Thanks, Jim. That’s a great photo of you in your profile, by the way . . . but inherently dishonest, as it’s a solid six months old. I am a fan of PGC, drink it personally, my clients love the stuff, and have sold more of that wine than probably any other label over the past 15 years. But I’m not really here to critique specific wines or producers. I’m more in favor of promoting stuff I like, and discussing more general wine issues. Now, back to my bottle of 2015 Patricia Green Cellars Dry Muscat Ottonel.

38

I drink mostly French wine and find Oregon much more to my liking than anything else US. Many friends and acquaintances also appreciate Oregon’s Pinots more than California products. The wine market is not a homogenous beast yearning for ever-riper fruit, though it probably makes a lot of sense from a marketing point of view to approach it as such. Nonetheless, your post is incredibly disheartening, and seems disrespectful of the many talented winemakers who don’t feel that they need anyone to tell them how to do a better job of making their product, particularly if that advice largely involves completely abandoning their own ideas of quality to embrace something more marketable. Upon reading your post I had to wonder “who is hurting exactly?” I just had no idea that Oregon wine was a product of such suffering. Is it even ethical to drink it? Is there maybe a gofundme that we could contribute to instead so that these winemakers wouldn’t have to keep making a product they love and respect, and could instead make marketable plonk?

There are also a lot of practical considerations that I believe your grand scheme might not account for adequately. First, as has been addressed, is the issue of scale. Is there really quality vineyard space to allow for such production levels? Perhaps that is only secondary to the kind of scheme you describe here, and inadequate vineyard land will serve just as well if marketed properly. Second, in my experience Oregon has drastically more extreme vintage variation than California. One of the strengths of California wine in almost all regions (the ones discussed here anyway) seems to be a relative lack of vintage variation. In the last fifteen years how many truly difficult vintages has Napa seen? While a winemaker may say many, it seems that most years the quality of product - like it or dislike it - is very consistent. Oregon seems to fluctuate much more on the vagaries of vintage. It makes for an interesting relationship if you are a fan, with ripe fruity years and lean sharp years, but for a casual drinker it provides a lot of risk that they will be burned by a bottle and not get the wine they expected, or the wine that they had last time and wanted an exact replica of again. Maybe interventions can solve that. Maybe extra hang time and acidification or RO or some other interventions, along with large scale and careful blending will crank out enough of that consistent product to build the type of recognition that you describe. All I can think as a fan who is finding his way back to OR more and more is “man, that would suck.” At the end of the day Oregon isn’t trying to be Burgundy, but the wine produced there has as much in common with Burgundy as it does with California, because that is kind of what nature seems to offer. And, as mentioned, the vintage variation is much more similar to Burgundy than to California.

And if Oregon succeeded in this vision you imagine, is that really a good thing? I suppose that for the people who got rich off of that transition it would be. For consumers I think it certainly wouldn’t be, as a unique and interesting source of wine that still represents value would be gone, leaving perhaps no region in the US that offers value, quality, and something outside of the ripe-rich-fruity American norm. It would likely also suck for all of the small winemakers who can now afford to get in on the ground floor in OR, even if it costs more than it used to, and who could never afford to do so in Napa or Sonoma without major investment backing. And if some of those new producers want to launch a Chardonnay at $75 a bottle with no track record thinking perhaps that they can act as if they are in Sonoma, well, they’re welcome to try though I won’t be buying.

When I initially read your post I wondered if you were joking, because it seemed so outlandish and rather disrespectful to all of those in the business in OR who probably don’t want or need your advice. Probably a bit how you feel when some French winemaker shows up in CA and sticks his or her nose up at your practices. But upon rereading it appears that you were sincere. Clearly you are knowledgeable and respected at what you do and make a great product in your particular bailiwick, so I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, I guess at the end of the day I just have to wonder why the push for homogeny? Why should the Willamette Valley want to be Sonoma? Why should wine consumers want there to be only similar products from these different places? I don’t get it, but I sure do hope that I never see the realization of your vision.

In any case, take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I know F’all about winemaking, and am just speaking as one consumer offering an opinion. That opinion is I like a lot of Oregon pinot noir and don’t like California much pinot noir, and I prefer value to slick marketing, so clearly I have some biases here.

Oh, and one final thought: If KB is so sought after why do they try so hard to sell me wine? I signed up years ago and never bought a bottle but they offered it to me over and over until I told them to stop. I guess if their list is what you say it is production must be outrageous.

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39

Jim, from one (very) satisfied customer: whatever you do, please don’t change the style and quality. That’s what makes your wines so good!

One (no doubt bonehead) suggestion from someone who knows nothing about the business side of wine: what about getting someone else to do the traveling, or most of it? That can get really tiring really fast, IMO.

40

This came out last week (though almost none of us could read it since we aren’t subscribers):
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/print-edition/2016/06/03/cover-story-the-sobering-reality-of-oregon-wine.html

I’m not sure how accurate it is, but I’ve seen other stories where they claim surveys indicate many wineries in Oregon are struggling financially and considering getting out (selling out?).

So I do think it’s worth considering that there may be some financial struggles, but I don’t see Roy’s solution as a good one.