What happened to Pontet Canet 2019???

[Scott_E1]

Guys, geez, get a grip - you all know the only score that matters is the one by Suckles! Cheers!

[Gabe_Berk]

Neal and Jane are now the most credible and experienced English-language Bordeaux critics in the world, who are still in the prime of their careers. The market is aligned with that perspective, and values their scores above all others. That doesn’t mean their notes are always or even more often “right”, but it does mean their notes “matter” more in the overall perception of quality. Again, it’s not a knock on William or Jeb. Personally I’ll look forward to tasting the wine this summer and forming my own opinion.

Ehem, of course that is highly subjective, as is my opinion that follows. Most of what I buy is Bordeaux, and have for many years, and do not really pay attention to either Neal or Jane very much. Frankly, Pontet Canet is not that interesting of a wine. I don’t buy it and have none in my cellar. There are so many other interesting, classic Bordeaux to fawn over. Did you see William’s review on the 2019 PC? I assume LPB did the EP review, what do you expect from a reviewer that prefers black Forrest cake?

Suckling just gave bottle score of 99. Galloni just gave a bottle score of 96. 98 from Jane Anson from bottle as well. Some reviewers are in the high nineties and other in the low nineties. Will be a very good bottle of Bordeaux, especially for $85 upon release. Potential 100 pointer as Perrotti-Brown guessed a couple years ago? Most likely not, but all subjective per usual.

[Dan_Kravitz]

FWIW Jancis Robbins gave it 16 points late October and an underwhelmed description. It would not enduce me to pursue the wine in any way, if I were in the market ( and I have bought Pontet Canet off and on since 1970, but I’ve pretty well stopped buying long haul wines due to anno domini) . Not sure of the protocol of quoting it here. I’ll check.

[She describes 16 as ‘distinguished’ but since it falls between average and superior I tend to think of it as ‘good but not great’ . Her words in this instance give no hint of distinction. Not sure if it was tasted blind].

How British! It’s like Clive Coates’ “very good” and “very good indeed.” You need a decryptor ring.

I’m hazy on this, but I believe there was a British wine critic who considered ‘good’ to be a higher rating than ‘quite good’.

Dan Kravitz

[Craig_G]

Guys, geez, get a grip - you all know the only score that matters is the one by SucklesWilfred Wong! Cheers!

Improved

[Dan_Kravitz]

“Suckling just gave bottle score of 99.”

Isn’t that about his average score?

Dan Kravitz

[DanielP]

So Dunnuck describes the wine as having “quality tannins, good balance, and outstanding length. It warrants 7-8 years of bottle age and will evolve for 30+ years.” Yet, at the same time, “the quality is unquestionably not at the same level.”

Sometimes after reading critic notes, I don’t even think I know what quality means anymore except that big number good. I suppose the new style is also of inferior quality, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.

[Gabe_Berk]

“Suckling just gave bottle score of 99.”

Isn’t that about his average score?

Dan Kravitz

Haha. Yup. He really likes wine…a lot.

[RichardFlack]

FWIW Jancis Robbins gave it 16 points late October and an underwhelmed description. It would not enduce me to pursue the wine in any way, if I were in the market ( and I have bought Pontet Canet off and on since 1970, but I’ve pretty well stopped buying long haul wines due to anno domini) . Not sure of the protocol of quoting it here. I’ll check.

[She describes 16 as ‘distinguished’ but since it falls between average and superior I tend to think of it as ‘good but not great’ . Her words in this instance give no hint of distinction. Not sure if it was tasted blind].

How British! It’s like Clive Coates’ “very good” and “very good indeed.” You need a decryptor ring.

I’m hazy on this, but I believe there was a British wine critic who considered ‘good’ to be a higher rating than ‘quite good’.

Dan Kravitz

Hmmm. Quite good depends totally on tone of voice and smile or frown. Are you making a case for numerical scores?

[Kurt_L]

There’s a curious comment on cellartracker from someone who tasted it in June 2020 and scored it 99 and then tasted it again in Dec 2020 and scored it 94 and wrote “Little deception? I thindk it loosed a little of his splendour from june 2020” I noticed this a while back and wondered if something about the shipping (and/or selection) of samples in June 2020 worked out favorably for initial scores. It’s interesting that the change was evident only 6 months after the initial sample.

[Jeff_M1]

Gotta give it more time. I bought a half case and hope the wine will evolve in 10-20 years.

[Jeff_Leve]

I tasted Pontet Canet 2019 for the second time today. Once at home from a bottle they shipped and again tonight at the property. I think it is one of the better vintages of Pontet Canet.

Chateau Pontet Canet, Pauillac, Bordeaux, Complete Guide

We all have our own taste. But I do not get the reference to Gigondas.

[Andy_Sc]

We‘ve had the 2016 (!) some time ago blind. My guess was Sine Qua Non… don‘t get me wrong, it tasted like a great, young, weightless SQN and was of high quality (not Gigondas average) but still I would not buy it.

[RichardFlack]

Bottle variation seems to be the culprit. I goofed on purple pages, I tend to go for the most recent review. In this case I should have looked at the other two.

The first is Jancis Robinson, the other two James Lowther (18 and 17.5). She tasted in London, he tasted in Bordeaux. 2020 was barrel sample. Seems possible the London bottle might have had a rough / lengthy journey.

(I was told it’s ok to quote reviews here)

[Robert.A.Jr]

Neal and Jane are now the most credible and experienced English-language Bordeaux critics in the world, who are still in the prime of their careers. The market is aligned with that perspective, and values their scores above all others. That doesn’t mean their notes are always or even more often “right”, but it does mean their notes “matter” more in the overall perception of quality. Again, it’s not a knock on William or Jeb. Personally I’ll look forward to tasting the wine this summer and forming my own opinion.

Ehem, of course that is highly subjective, as is my opinion that follows. Most of what I buy is Bordeaux, and have for many years, and do not really pay attention to either Neal or Jane very much. Frankly, Pontet Canet is not that interesting of a wine. I don’t buy it and have none in my cellar. There are so many other interesting, classic Bordeaux to fawn over. Did you see William’s review on the 2019 PC? I assume LPB did the EP review, what do you expect from a reviewer that prefers black Forrest cake?

Indeed, her 98-100 score was based on the Black Forest cake elements – chocolate and cherries!

Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate: 98-100 points

The blend this year is 65% Cabernet Sauvignon, 30% Merlot, 3% Cabernet Franc and 2% Petit Verdot. Very deep purple-black colored, the 2019 Pontet-Canet has the most gorgeous, lifted perfume of lilacs, > dark chocolate, Morello cherries > and rosehip tea over a core of crème de cassis, plum preserves, licorice and woodsmoke with a waft of fragrant soil. Full-bodied, rich and fantastically opulent, the palate offers layer upon layer of ripe, finely grained tannins and seamless freshness, finishing very long and mineral laced. A real head-turner, this beauty is absolutely going to steal your heart! - Lisa Perrotti-Brown

Review date: May 2020

So I’m curious. The 2018 Southwold Bordeaux tasting was back in January of this year. I know a lot of major critics went, but did not see Jancis or Farr Vintners “chat up” the Pontet Canet in any big way.

Have other major critics commented about 2018 PC in bottle during that tasting, like Vinuous, TWA, etc.?

I think these are blind, right?

[David_K2]

I’m not a big believer in bottle variation, especially for top Bordeaux wines where they’ve got everything down to a science. Sometimes tasters just have different opinions on different days.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

FWIW Jancis Robbins gave it 16 points late October and an underwhelmed description. It would not enduce me to pursue the wine in any way, if I were in the market ( and I have bought Pontet Canet off and on since 1970, but I’ve pretty well stopped buying long haul wines due to anno domini) . Not sure of the protocol of quoting it here. I’ll check.

[She describes 16 as ‘distinguished’ but since it falls between average and superior I tend to think of it as ‘good but not great’ . Her words in this instance give no hint of distinction. Not sure if it was tasted blind].

How British! It’s like Clive Coates’ “very good” and “very good indeed.” You need a decryptor ring.

I’m hazy on this, but I believe there was a British wine critic who considered ‘good’ to be a higher rating than ‘quite good’.

Dan Kravitz

It’s a British thing, Quite is like rather good rather than just good.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

How British! It’s like Clive Coates’ “very good” and “very good indeed.” You need a decryptor ring.

I’m hazy on this, but I believe there was a British wine critic who considered ‘good’ to be a higher rating than ‘quite good’.

Dan Kravitz

It’s a British thing, Quite to them is like rather. Depending on how you say it, it can mean pretty good indeed, or merely somewhere in the vicinity of good.

[DanielP]

Ehem, of course that is highly subjective, as is my opinion that follows. Most of what I buy is Bordeaux, and have for many years, and do not really pay attention to either Neal or Jane very much. Frankly, Pontet Canet is not that interesting of a wine. I don’t buy it and have none in my cellar. There are so many other interesting, classic Bordeaux to fawn over. Did you see William’s review on the 2019 PC? I assume LPB did the EP review, what do you expect from a reviewer that prefers black Forrest cake?

Indeed, her 98-100 score was based on the Black Forest cake elements – chocolate and cherries!

Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate: 98-100 points

The blend this year is 65% Cabernet Sauvignon, 30% Merlot, 3% Cabernet Franc and 2% Petit Verdot. Very deep purple-black colored, the 2019 Pontet-Canet has the most gorgeous, lifted perfume of lilacs, > dark chocolate, Morello cherries > and rosehip tea over a core of crème de cassis, plum preserves, licorice and woodsmoke with a waft of fragrant soil. Full-bodied, rich and fantastically opulent, the palate offers layer upon layer of ripe, finely grained tannins and seamless freshness, finishing very long and mineral laced. A real head-turner, this beauty is absolutely going to steal your heart! - Lisa Perrotti-Brown

Review date: May 2020

So I’m curious. The 2018 Southwold Bordeaux tasting was back in January of this year. I know a lot of major critics went, but did not see Jancis or Farr Vintners “chat up” the Pontet Canet in any big way.

Have other major critics commented about 2018 PC in bottle during that tasting, like Vinuous, TWA, etc.?

I think these are blind, right?

Interestingly, I think Neal Martin has been pretty lukewarm over the past several years on P-C at these Southwold tastings based on his notes. Looking at the aggregate scores from the 2017 vintage tasting, it looked to underperform compared to its peers.

[Arv_R]

I’m not a big believer in bottle variation, especially for top Bordeaux wines where they’ve got everything down to a science. Sometimes tasters just have different opinions on different days.

It might not be a big concern for young wines, but if one puts away a case for 20 years and pulls a couple bottles there can be surprising differences. Bottles sealed with natural corks will not have the same consistent amount of oxygen transfer, and lead to a divergence in taste over time. I don’t know why but some estates/years have bigger issues with this than others.

Having experienced this with my own cellar, I now might comment ’ xyz was a great bottle ’ rather than ’ xyz is a great wine ’ …

[Mark_Golodetz]

I cannot understand why a major estate would ban a critic. It is not as though he won’t have the opportunity to taste the wines.