What does the term "sap" or "sappy" mean to you?

[Andrew_Morris]

@Robert.Fleming

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” ~ Through the Looking Glass, Ch. VI.

Really. If you want to say that a wine lacks acid, why call it sappy? Why not say that it lacks acid?

[paul_hanna]

@Paul Savage

From issue #1 of Burghound:

1998 La Tâche: Stunning nose of red and black fruits, oriental spices, tea and leather notes. Intensely sappy flavor with wave after wave of ever changing flavors. The personality here is edgy, cool, confident and pure with the ripe acidity framing the flavors. The Richebourg is long but the La Tâche is even longer. A great effort. (95)

I.e. exceptional youthful ripe, sweet, density and concentration. No connotation of anything “out of balance” or anything negative!!

I also think of typical DRC stems in this note here with reference to sappy…

[Panos_Kakaviatos]

@Gregory Dal Piaz

It’s mouthwateringly juicy as opposed to thirst quenchingly juicy.

I agree with the above sentence. It is about the juiciness of the wine. In French, the term is “seve”.

[Wes_Barton]

I’ve used it to describe an interplay of factors: dense mouthfeel, fairly intense/concentrated fruit, and stemmy resin and spice.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Robert.Fleming

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

When I use [sappy, usually in connection with Pinot Noir], I mean something along the lines of resinous pine tree sap.

Are you talking about aroma, taste, or texture? Pine sap is not something I’ve encountered in Pinot Noir, nose or palate. Pine needle/juniper berry aromas occasionally, but not pine sap…

Never texture; usually Nose; sometimes Palate.

[billnanson]

nothing…

Given no consistent idea of what it means and even completely opposing views above - I’m happy to stay that way…

[Paul_L_i_n]

I do not think of sappy as a flavor per se but rather as how the wine acts as a vehicle for the fruit. Wines that are sappy have a certain intensity, vitality, freshness, and vigor to them. If you think of sap as the “life-blood” of a plant, then a sappy wine conveys the essence and life of the grape. For example, I have read notes by winemakers that describe the “sappy core” of a wine as having x, y, and z flavors, which is something you often perceive in young wines.

[Evan_Dawson]

Fascinating to read the various meanings to people. For me, “sappy” is simply saturated and syrupy, lacking in acid, flabby. Perhaps overripe or over-extracted, sweet, not appealing.

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

I use the term, and usually in connection with Pinot. When I use it, I mean something along the lines of resinous pine tree sap.

Likewise. I use it as a resin / resinous equivalent.

[Enzo_Ruffalo]

[Robert.Fleming]

Out of curiosity, I did a Google search for tasting notes using the “sappy” descriptor. Here are some of my finds:

• 2008 Kestener Paulinshofberger Riesling Spätlese ‘Auf den Felsen’, Bastgen, on moselfinewines.com: “The wine is sappy and racy on the palate with well integrated acidity and a yoghurt-zesty touch reminiscent of classical Fritz Haag wines.”
• 2008 Anjou Blanc, Pithon-Paillé, on thewinedoctor.com: “This is a vivacious wine with fresh, sappy, grippy fruit backed up by fine acidity.”
• 2004 Barolo ‘Rocche del Annunziata,’ Renato Ratti, on vintagesonline.com: “this is downright Burgundian. Full, lush and broad; an outsized wine with terrific verve and sappy depth.”
• 2006 Mencia, Bodegas Y Vinedos Paixar, IWC (Raynolds): "Sappy, palate-coating red and dark berry flavors are impressively pure and focused, showing a strong undercurrent of minerals and no rough edges. The finish repeats the red berry and floral notes and lingers with excellent sappy persistence.
• 2003 Pinot Noir ‘Quail Hill,’ Patricia Green Cellars, on northwest-wine.com: “this wine, while concentrated and sappy with boysenberry and raspberry qualities, is less dense and wild than the 2002 bottling.”
• 1990 Vin Santo del Chianti Rufina, Villa di Monte, on jancisrobinson.com: “Sappy wine that is not that sweet (serve with cheese?), having been aged for more than 10 years in tightly sealed little barrels.”
• 2004 Moulis-en-Médoc, Château Chasse-Spleen, on greatbordeauxwines.com: “Sappy and well-structured wine with fine tannin grip”

Not an exhaustive search by any means, but I didn’t find any notes suggesting (to me) either (a) under-ripeness or stemmy, resiny qualities, or (b) over-ripeness or lack of acidity or structure. FWIW.

@Panos Kakaviatos

In French, the term is “sève”.

More here: sève" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nathan_Smyth]

If you want to experience “sappy” in a wine, then hunt down a bottle of the 1999 Vincent Girardin Romanee St Vivant.

Wine Searcher Pro is showing it [u]at about $150[/u].

Actually, treat yourself to two bottles - opening the first bottle right now would be infanticide, and you would want to keep at least one more bottle for the long haul.

[Brady_Daniels]

Put me firmly in the camp of “sappy” being a positive descriptor. I’ve never seen anyone use it negatively in TN’s.

IMHO, the above negative descriptions are more usually labeled “jammy” and there is a world of difference between the two.

For me “sappy” is a fascinating combination of flavor and texture in a young wine, usually pinot. I’d describe it as fresh viscous fruit that stays on the back of the tongue after the wine is swallowed. I suppose the earlier acidity explanations make sense, because I find these wines to be refreshing rather than cloying.

It is also different than “crunchy” which for me is cranberry juice-like, and can also be a positive descriptor, though I get it more in village level Burgs.

[bretrooks]

@Wes Barton

I’ve used it to describe an interplay of factors: dense mouthfeel, fairly intense/concentrated fruit, and stemmy resin and spice.

I don’t think I’ve used the term in a note myself, but this description is closest to what I think of when I read it…sappiness as a dark, concentrated, maybe even liqueur-y quality with resinous overtones. I generally see it as a positive descriptor.

[B_Crabtree]

[quote=“Robert.Fleming”]Out of curiosity, I did a Google search for tasting notes using the “sappy” descriptor. Here are some of my finds:

• 2008 Kestener Paulinshofberger Riesling Spätlese ‘Auf den Felsen’, Bastgen, on moselfinewines.com: “The wine is sappy and racy on the palate with well integrated acidity and a yoghurt-zesty touch reminiscent of classical Fritz Haag wines.”
• 2008 Anjou Blanc, Pithon-Paillé, on thewinedoctor.com: “This is a vivacious wine with fresh, sappy, grippy fruit backed up by fine acidity.”

These notes are helpful. They describe an intensity of flavor, especially of fruit. I don’t see either the spicy, resin quality or a lack of structure or acidity.

[Michael_Malinoski]

@Brady Daniels

Put me firmly in the camp of “sappy” being a positive descriptor. I’ve never seen anyone use it negatively in TN’s.

IMHO, the above negative descriptions are more usually labeled “jammy” and there is a world of difference between the two.

For me “sappy” is a fascinating combination of flavor and texture in a young wine, usually pinot. I’d describe it as fresh viscous fruit that stays on the back of the tongue after the wine is swallowed. I suppose the earlier acidity explanations make sense, because I find these wines to be refreshing rather than cloying.

It is also different than “crunchy” which for me is cranberry juice-like, and can also be a positive descriptor, though I get it more in village level Burgs.

Brady has captured well how I use the term in my own notes. Though it isn’t always necessarily a young wine…

-Michael

[Michel_Abood]

@Gregory Dal Piaz

I use it more in the sapid context.

It means juicy for me as well but in a more youthful, acid-driven way than ‘juicy’.

It’s mouthwateringly juicy as opposed to thirst quenchingly juicy.

+1

Perfect description to me.

[G_D_y_e_r]

@billnanson

nothing…

Given no consistent idea of what it means and even completely opposing views above - I’m happy to stay that way…

Ah, the pitfalls of trying to map sensory experience to words! So far sappy seems to refer to:

-texture: a dense, syrupy and/or viscous quality
-structure: a synonym for flabby, i.e. sweet and lacking acid
-flavor: a resinous, piney quality
-flavor: a synonym for ‘sapid’, meaning especially flavorful, deep and vibrant with refreshing acidity
-texture: the way a wine can stick in the mouth at the finish

Though I guess it’s kind of boring to do it this way, perhaps it’s best to describe wine structurally in direct terms rather than by analogy.

[G_D_y_e_r]

@Frank Deis

The fact that George has an “opposite” definition reminds me a little of the word “musky” which I think hardly anyone knows how to use correctly. It often goes off in the direction either of body odor or decaying newspapers (“musty”) but that’s because of differences in olfaction between individuals, and most people’s lack of opportunity to smell actual musk. Musk has a clean sweet almost floral smell, and is like expensive soap (because expensive soap often has musk in it). But how many people mean that when they use the word?

Interesting. I had thought of musk as being a characteristic of a cologne. I didn’t think of it as a negative, though perhaps associated more pungency with it than the above description. I guess I need to sniff a musk deer’s crotch to find out what it really is!

This also reminds me of the issue with terms like graphite, minerality, forrest floor that provide an evocative analogy in a tasting note, but also one that people picture very differently. In some ways it seems the goal to offer a very precise description, yet the understanding of the descriptor is so varied it does the opposite.

[Mike_Grammer]

@Cris Whetstone

For me it is about how it feels towards the finish and the way it sticks to my mouth. It has nothing to do with flavor.

If I had to be nailed down on it, I think Cris’ interpretation comes closest to my own, but this is admittedly a descriptor I have a great deal of trouble with when trying to use it—or to understand others’ use. Tanzer uses it a great deal too. Maybe I’d add the concept of “energy” to what Cris has said, but I think of it in a textural/tactile sense rather than a flavour-based sense.