As someone who makes freezer jams, they do have their own character distinct from the fresh fruit. The sugar brings out more flavor and the lemon brightens them up, they are the epitome of fresh. Anyway, if that’s what I want to describe I’ll be more specific to differentiate from the default cooked taste. The main difference between a cooked and fresh taste is the loss of volatile aromatic compounds. (Why you might add more basil to a dish after you take it off the stove.)
a reduction quality to the wine to me is jammy
Again, thats pendantic. We are using an adjective that would be meaningful to 99.9% of the population. I guess freezer jam enthusiasts are just shit out of luck when it comes to reading about overly ripe wines ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
. It works for the rest of us though.
Most of us say “reduction” when a wine has a clear hydrogen sulfide aromas. Is this how you are using it? If yes, what would that have to do with jammy?
How about the glossary definition from one of the professionals that uses the term. Why do we need to make up our own meanings that are at odds with the meanings from the people that use the terms?
jammy: When wines have a great intensity of fruit from excellent ripeness they can be jammy, which is a very concentrated, flavorful wine with superb extract. In great vintages such as 1961, 1978, 1985, 1989, 1990, and 1995, some of the wines are so concentrated that they are said to be jammy.
As a sweet wine fanatic, I definitely come across this term a lot. Whenever I have heard it applied to a wine it has always been in a negative connotation from wine lovers, but when I have tried the wines myself I understand what they mean but l disagree that it’s always a bad thing.
100% agreed with above in that it means very sweet cooked berry flavors. I do somewhat agree with Carlos that there is also an implication of heat because I’ve most often seen and heard the term applied to Port wines that turn out to be unbalanced and whose high heat level gives an even stronger impression of “cooked” flavor than you would normally get in a balanced Port because it is cutting off the acid and emphasizing the dried fruit flavors. For my tastes, a balanced Port will have flavors of dried fruit. When it’s unbalanced, I find the heat makes it taste like stewed or cooked fruits.
I don’t find jammy wines to be bad by any means, but they are very different from a fresher style of wine. As was also noted above, I find that a fresher non-jammy wine goes better with food. A jammy wine, however, makes an excellent meal finisher.
I’ve had professionals who use the term give me the definition almost everyone else here is using, not the one you quoted. Plus, “fruit tastes like jam” seems much more clear than this vague, subjective definition.
+2
And who is this supposed authority we are supposed to defer to? And what region is he/she referring to? I certainly can’t imagine “jammy” applying to 78 or 95 in Bordeaux!
I always used the word like JIMCOH (without getting into the vintage debate), so I’m apparently different from most; for me, “jammy” means concentrated and fruit-forward, and most importantly jam-like flavor. Many Southern Rhone wines strike me as jammy; if it’s done right, I can like it, so it is not an automatic negative. The negative term I use for cooked, over-done, hyper-concentrated wine is “syrupy”.
Thanks all for the great insights. I think the definition quoted many times above that ‘jammy’ refers to ‘concentrated fruit that tastes like jam’ makes the most sense to me.
But, also think that the term has come to imply the mouthfeel of the wine too (right or wrong) for many folks:
I think I’ve learned jammy isn’t really a bad thing, but then again, one most consider the source of the description.
I don’t think it needs to be a bad thing, but I don’t tend to like that quality in a wine. I know many people do enjoy it. I think about Robert Parker using “liqueur-like” as a positive descriptor. He may love that, but I detest a wine that tastes like liqueur. The funny thing is, I like liqueur. It’s just not what I’m looking for when I drink wine.
Same here. As a result, “jammy” and “liqueur-like” are the most useful wine descriptors to me as a potential buyer. If it is “jammy” then it probably lacks some other element I enjoy that would have prevented those fruit notes from entering the “cooked-sweet” (as opposed to “candied” or “dried” ) part of the spectrum.
For me, it does not necessarily connote cooked fruit. Rich, deep, even bright fruit flavors…but with a thickness to the viscosity. It’s (to me) a combination of flavor and texture.
.Most of us say “reduction” when a wine has a clear hydrogen sulfide aromas. Is this how you are using it? If yes, what would that have to do with jammy?
well I’ll be damn I must be using it wrong, I guess I’ll have switch it to…hmmmm…overextracted/syrupy…yes that’s better. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Marc, are you using in in the sense of a reduction sauce as in cooking? If so, you are right in that sense but that’s not the way that term is used by winemakers (who are talking about chemical reduction).
yes i am using it in the way ment for cooking…but I needed to be more specific…since I am not a winemaker I did not realize this.
Well, since I was agreeing with you, perhaps you should reread what I said:
- “Jammy” is the right word for that cooked fruit character. No need to elaborate.
- If the wine invokes a jam association that is different than what “jammy” is commonly understood to mean, one needs to be more specific to differentiate (ie. “raspberry freezer jam”), so you aren’t using the same descriptor for two different things.
I prefer the term as employed by Ice Cube:
“Felt on the big fat fanny
Pulled out the jammy, and killed the punanny.”
Excellent! Party on Garth!