Wet Corks vs. Swirling Sediment in Old Wines

WINE TALK
1

I have been drinking a lot of old Barolo lately, as well as shopping for years in enoteche here for where even many of the most expensive bottles are stored upright. (For better or for worse, many Europeans do not buy into 55-degree, on-the-side storage.) Conventional wisdom has it that, for long-term lay-down, storing the wine on its side to keep the cork wet is best. That has been discussed many times, and I have no problem with that better-safe-than-sorry approach. HOWEVER…old Nebbiolo is known for the ultra-fine sediment that it produces, a sediment that is often so fine that it is nearly impossible to filter out. Worse, it tends to hang in suspension for a long time, and Nebbiolo lovers all too often open wines that are as cloudy as cold, unfiltered olive oil. Thus, for old bottles that I know that I will drink within a year, I have taken to storing them upright, mostly in a very cool passive cellar but also in an extra refrigerator for bottles that I believe have no aging upside and are better off kept in suspended animation, as it were. I have had spectacular results in having the sediment precipitate out, resulting in wines that are not only delicious but clear and stunning beautiful as well. I thought that it might be a good idea to look beyond Nebbiolo (I have had the problem with old Burgundy as well) and take a sampling of opinions about storing wine upright: what wines, how long before drinking, upsides, downsides, etc. Talk amongst yourselves…

2

I built my own wine racking that stores the bottles just upright enough that the cork stays wet, but the sediment readily collects at the bottom of the bottle. I don’t know why more racking isn’t built like that.

I don’t know who told me this nugget of wisdom, but I tend to stand wines upright at least a day for each year past vintage.

Logically though, with regard to long term storage, I have a hard time imagining a cork drying out considering how humid an environment exists on the wine side of the cork, regardless of how it is stored.

3

I store wines only their side because it is more practical in the cellar for me. I never worried about wines standing up and at any given time I have a case or two standing up so that I can drink them on the spur of the moment. In fact, I think that laying bottles down for longer periods is more likely to screw up the cork, but not enough to be anything but an inconvenience. I think an old bottle needs a few weeks minimum of standing up.

4

Worrying about the fine sediment in older Barolo and Burgs? Wish I had more problems like this.

5

Bill, the sediment thing seems like a moving target. Some wines seem positively “shock-sensitive”, the majority are more resilient IMHO. If you’re diving in to a treasure and have the time, why do anything other than treat it gently, and stand it up for a week or two in advance. If you don’t have the time and need to lug your bottle around, I’ve had acceptable success after several hours of settling…not ideal, but my rate for bottles “ruined” by fine suspended sediment has been low. YMMV.

Could many performances have been improved by longer settling times and handling with kid gloves…probably. If the sediment is so incredibly fine as to require “weeks” to settle, doesn’t the act of pouring resuspend a fair amount? Pour half the bottle, top off with inert gas, reseal it, and wait another week before pouring a little more?

I’d be concerned about cork shrinkage if standing up old bottles for several months or more.

RT

6

When you get to be my age, you will! By the way, Burgs aside, the old Nebbiolo problem is not about money. I have been on a mini-buying spree here lately of 50-60-year-old wines from legendary vintages but of lesser-known producers, and we are talking a lot of sub-$100 bottles. However, the wines, not knowing that they were made by lesser-known producers, are chock full of fine sediment anyway! You only have to open one old bottle of cloudy Nebbiolo of any price to wail about the problem. I seem to recall that this happened recently to Ken V. on a bottle really worth drinking, and he wailed like a banshee about it, too!

7

You could try to accelerate the settlement of the sediment by holding the bottle by the neck and swinging it in a fast windmill motion to use centrifugal force to push the sediment to the bottom. Llke making tea in a billy but without the risk of scalding yourself.

8

I also like to keep a few “on deck” upright, but I haven’t tried more than a couple of weeks.

At the end of the day, your wines, your results. Seems to work for you.

9

I tend to agree with Bill here; I’ve had some surprisingly off experiences with some Barolo, where I think part of the problem was that the wine still had that cloudy fine sediment, which made the wine more bitter and coarse tasting that I would have expected.

[I’ve also had some problems with older Chianti – I’ve had two of my three bottles of 97 Felsina Rancia in the last year, and both were cloudy with fine sediment, and not very pleasant to drink, kind of big and clunky and bitter.]

The problem for me is a practical one; my storage cabinets are sideways, and for me to predict far in advance which Barolos and Barbarescos I’m going to drink so I can stand them up for months, it just isn’t happening. It’s already hard enough to open Barolos, given the time they need to aerate and all, but this layer makes it so I often go months at a time without opening one.

I guess I need a new plan, but despite all the time I waste on wine, that seems almost like a bridge too far. I’m open to any suggestions.

10

The larger issue here is that suspended Nebbiolo sediment has none of the pleasant qualities of the dregs of some other wines…it is downright nasty!

11

Who would have ever thought to stand old bottles up to let the sediment settle prior to drinking them… Or to shine a bright flashlight through the bottle to see how the settling is coming along.

Genius I tell ya!

12

What does the sediment taste like? I’ve opened a few old Nebbs that were at least slightly cloudy. Not sure how much or how it effected the taste.

And how long to do you need to keep them upright for the sediment to settle? Opinions seem to vary on this point (from a few hours to a few months).

TIA!

13

Ditto Peter’s question. I’m sure it varies, but what is a rough rule of thumb?

Note that the fine cloudy particulate in Barolo is different from the clumpy and easy to see stuff you typically find in other old reds - I’m not sure if Justin’s drive-by insult encompassed Barolo specifically or not.

14

Anything older than 80s Nebbiolo stands up for at least 6-8 weeks in my house…at least.
Started that long ago after a few banshee wailings.

15

But give him credit…it managed to be both unsophisticated and to miss the point of the thread at the same time…

16

man you’re a great planner. I don’t even know what I’ll drink a week before something [snort.gif]

17

Bill, us old Nebbie newbies (or at least this one) would appreciate any info you can pass on in answer to these two questions. I have several 50-60 yr olds on their sides downstairs, and some middling to good (but not yet stellar) experiences with others. Maybe I’m not paying enough attention to the sediment. I await your kind attention to this question (no sarcasm intended, you have way more experience than I and most others).

18

I love threads like this…

19

How did I miss the point? You stated that you’re willing to risk possible cork failure for the chance of letting the wine go clear. Apparently you missed mine - Standing wines up for an extended amount of time is hardly a new technique, and one I’m quite sure many here on the board use quite regularly. Not sure how it being tied to Barolo makes it revolutionary or unique, old Burgundy can have incredibly fine sediment as well. A wine stored on it’s side for an extended amount of time can provide very similar results when decanted properly but obviously much more difficult to travel to dinner with etc. I personally stand my wines up whenever possible, but am not opposed to decanting carefully and losing the extra ounce of wine I may have gotten had it been stood up for an extended period of time.

Also, if your bottle is so dodgy that it can’t survive the better part of a year of being vertical in a cool relatively humid place it was likely not going to be great anyway…

Well that and I wanted to bust your chops… flirtysmile

20

Peter,

I’ve found that older bottles need more time at a 45 degree angle or standing up than most bottles with sediment. I always use a flashlight to see what I can get for clarity before pulling the cork. I like standing them at a 45 degree angle as it allows the sediment to settle in the base of the bottle in one area…allowing me to get the MOST wine out of the bottle before the sediment comes and mucks things up.

What does sediment do or how does it affect flavor? (I think someone asked this)

For me it makes the wine more bitter/astringent. I have friends that love drinking the dregs…for me it’s the fastest way to ruin a wine. I’m hyper sensative to bitter flavors though…so where others might not notice or it might seem minimal…I can’t tollerate it. I decant any wine that’s 5+ years and is showing sediment in the base when I shine a light. I’m just happier that way. If ANY wine is 20+ years old…I stand it at 45 degrees for 60-90 days before I open it whenever possible. I hope this helps…