Warm reds in restaurant

WINE TALK
1

The last time we ordered a bottle in a restaurant, maybe two weeks ago, it was on the warmish side of room temperature. It was an '07 Foillard Morgon, at a restaurant with a very thoughtfully put-together wine list. Why why why are reds served too warm? It took a solid fifteen minutes to chill it to a nice, cool cellar temp.

Do you encounter this problem much? We BYO more and more, but I can’t remember the last time I ordered a red off the list that arrived sufficiently cool.

2

If you “can’t remember” the last time you were served a red wine at proper temp in a restaurant, then I would say you are going to the wrong places to eat! I don’t order off the list often, but when I do, especially in NYC, I have not had any issues.

However, there are plenty of places where there could be issues, and regardless of the quality of the list if you see that all the wines are stored in bins at height above the bar and seating area, as wines are in many “neighborhood” places in Manhattan, I would be concerned.

If it’s really an endemic problem in your area, you may want to mention it to some of the folks you’re on good terms with. Restaurants should know how to store wine.

3

I practically expect it … it’s one of the many reasons we BYO nearly all the time.

4

Almost always. Last night, in fact. It’s been a pet peeve of mine for a while now.

5

Stop going to The Olive Garden. neener

6

I rarely order off a list here but don’t find issues when I do. I do find this more of a problem in Europe.

7

In Manila, I eat out often but in a handful of select restaurants and pretty much always bring my own wine. The rare times I buy wine in a local restaurant, it is rosé or rosado which is always kept properly chilled - but, in any event, I call ahead to tell them to make sure it is properly chilled by the time I arrive.

In Manila, many years ago, before I made it a habit to bring my own wine all the time, I experienced being brought warm reds several times.

These days, the only time I order reds in restaurants is when I am traveling. When abroad, most all the restaurants I go to are carefully pre-selected, the winelist being one of the considerations in selection. I am happy to say that in all the restaurants in the US and Europe I have gone to where I have ordered reds, I never experienced having one brought to me that is too warm - not that I can recall anyway. I guess it is because the restaurants I select happen to be ones that know how to store their wine properly.

Now that I think about it, of all the times I was in the US in adulthood (I used to summer there once in a while when I was a student, but, obviously, was too young to buy alcohol or order alcohol or BYO in restaurants), I’ve BYOd only thrice - in Yabbies (SF), the House (SF) and in Villa Creek (Paso Robles - at a pre-HdR pinot noir dinner of Augie Hug - where, not knowing any better, I brought a couple of magnums of Burgundy reds - and was very embarrassed to discover that they meant US pinot noir based wines). In France, never BYOd.

8

If I’m buying!!! I rarely order bottles of red wine in a restaurant any more.

Wine to warm; most selections to young and you don’t have ample decant time in a restaurant; crappy wine glasses; outrageous markups, lead the reasons. I may order by the glass, but don’t push my luck past that these days.

If you made two lists; one of States that allow BYOB; and second, States that don’t (or under exteme conditions), I’m not sure which list would have the most names on it. But I do know the second list is quite long.

9

And give up that 6 oz pour in that 6.000001 oz glass?! [dontknow.gif]

After I said I couldn’t remember the last red I had that was served at an appropriate temperature, I remembered it: it was the '01 Jamet we ordered of the list at Willi’s Wine Bar in Paris. In retrospect, every other red we ordered in France and Italy this summer was too damn warm. I remember one very nice meal we had in a small town called Cliousclat. The food was nice, anyway. By the time we got our Cornas cooled down on a warm summer day, our meal was almost over.

This is the crux of my complaint, I suppose. Our favorite restaurants in Portland all have well-chosen lists, yet they don’t follow through with proper storage. I assume it’s because they buy the wines for short-term consumption and aren’t worried about heat damage at 70°, but the reds are just too damn warm too enjoy.

Thankfully, the staff at these places are usually quite knowledgeable, so they’re not at all surprised when we ask for ice buckets for our reds.

10

It is definitely a pet peeve of ours. I often find reds too warm but and occasionally find whites too warm. The more I’ve gotten to know wine, the bolder I’ve gotten with the requests to chill it. A lot of times, the server is polite about it. In fact, I’ve never encountered a situation where I received a comeback. I do, however, sometimes wind up drinking it warm because I do not want to wait for it to chill.

11

Yes, it happens even in the “better” restaurants. But I ask to the have the bottle chilled and problem solved. [whistle.gif]

12

Interesting. Villa Creek is one of the only restaurants I do not bother with BYO, as their list is very fairly priced, and has a very good selection. LOS is the only other one I can think of, off the top of my head, where the list is so good I just don’t bother with BYO. Outside of those two places, if BYO is not allowed then I’m probably not going to be dining there.

13

Has anyone ever called a restaurant ahead and asked to have a bottle chilled? That only works if you can see the list online or have seen it recently, but I’m tempted to try.

14

at a pre-HdR pinot noir dinner of Augie Hug - where, not knowing any better, I brought a couple of magnums of Burgundy reds - and was very embarrassed to discover that they meant US pinot noir based wines)

Your wines were great. We were embarrassed we didn’t match up.

-Al

15

It was a specially arranged dinner with a special menu - something Augie arranges every eve of HdR as I understand - where everyone is meant to BYO. They have a nice list, I did look over it. My only comment is that all the wines offered were very young - well, younger than I am accustomed to, anyway.

Thanks, Al, you are much too kind. I’m very happy you enjoyed my wines. I greatly enjoyed the dinner, wine and company that night. It was wonderful finally meeting online friends in person and I got to try so many US pinot noirs that I would never otherwise have been able to in Asia. Very memorable dinner for me.

16

The other side of the coin is during the rare times I order white wine (I usually bring my own)
in many restaurants, I get bottles so frozen that the wine seems like a solid. If I wanted to suck on ice chips, I would stick my tongue in my freezer [wink.gif] . Adding insult to injury, I am often asked if I would like an ice bucket at the table. Admittedly, here in Newport Beach, CA as opposed to where we used to live (Manhattan, NYC) the the restaurants are pretty poor, but one would think that by now, white table restaurants would know better.

Disclaimer: I am ITB–a wine columnist for many mags and have some fairly strict requirements for the wines I drink.

17

Wow, that’s a super coincidence. I’m not a wine columnist and ALSO have some fairly strict requirements for the wines I drink. newhere

18

Yeah, they MUST be someone elses… [stirthepothal.gif]

19

Reason #597 why I tend not to order wine off the list at most restaurants. I don’t know if it’s changed, but the last time I went to a very well-known restaurant in LA–known for both food & wine list–several of their uber-spiffy wines were stored in the bar area at room temperature…

Bruce

20

Bruce, I’d love to see a post with the 596 reasons ahead of that one [wink.gif]