Three reminder emails from Littorai, and not pulling the trigger.
It does not help that they f-ed up shipping my wines last fall.
I love Littorai wines and have been buying for a couple of years now, but what puts me over the edge is not just the increase in bottle cost, but the $15 charged for “storing” wine until the pick-up party and then the insultingly small pours at said party. You drive two hours out to Sebastopol and barely get enough juice in the glass to smell the wine… It seems that almost everything Littorai does these days is maximizing profit. Asking ~$500 for library magnums doesn’t help with that impression either.
Having said that, I still love the wines, but went down from getting 3-4 cases each year to less than 1. Littorai is also on top of my list to get dropped with so much good Cali Pinot/Chardonnay coming from Rhys, Anthill, Arnot-Roberts, and Aubert (at least that’s what I’m buying).
(PS: Sorry that my first post here is a rant, but I’ve been reading for years and finally thought I’ll sign up for an account. This thread just hit the nail on the head for me 
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Welcome, Andy
I’m not a buyer but just wanted to say WELCOME ANDY!!!
I’ve really enjoyed the few Littorai I’ve had but the pricing is absurd. You can buy great Burgundy for LESS.
Great wines, just awful QPR in my opinion.
I don’t get Littorai often, so I gone and done it for this release. But yeah, bit pricey, not sure how much more I’ll get again. Getting charged shipping having spent a grand is annoying. They aren’t the only ones that do that though to be fair.
I don’t think it’s outrageous for a winery to charge for shipping - it is an extra cost that has to be paid. And if a winery is going to ship everything 2nd Day, for instance, because they are concerned about the wines getting to you in ‘pristine condition’, then these costs will be steep on a per bottle basis.
That said, it always blows me away when shipping costs become the tipping point to decide not to purchase a wine. Do you think the wineries are ‘stupid’ or just ‘deaf’? And I am asking seriously - not sarcastically.
For those who have done so, what does a winery like Littorai say when asked directly about this? Do they waver at all?
The price increase is another story - these are beautiful, singular wines that offer lots of pleasure to those who enjoy them. Yep, there are other wines out there but I think it’s a bit ‘challenging’ to compare these to ‘Burgundy’ and say that you can get ‘better deals’ there . . . one can always make the argument that there are ‘better values’ out there for almost any wine. Period.
The Littorai that I have had have been gorgeous and elegant - and if I purchased many wines (I am wine rich and cash poor these days) these are the type that I would purchase . . . as long as shipping was in line with my expectations.
Cheers.
I don’t understand why they split their shipping across the wines. Why can’t they simply hold your wines and ship altogether, e.g. one 6-pack? I don’t know any other wineries that do this and have to imagine it raises the overall shipping costs. As for their price per bottle, can’t fault them for charging what the market will bear, and I’m sure operating costs continue to climb.
So you have to order all of the wines at once but they are split into more than one shipping?
I guess it makes it easier for them organization-wise, but I agree that you should not have to pay for that.
Yep, it’s a lot more expensive to ship 2 3 packs versus 1 6 pack . . .
Cheers.
You pay now during this release. You get the vin gris(‘17) and les larmes(‘16) AV appellation blend which ship in a couple weeks. I assume they were just bottled so I wont touch until fall at the earliest.
‘16 SVD’s (except savoy which ships with the above) ship in fall as the other half of my order.
I do wish they would hold all and ship together in fall after bottle shock is gone and for much cheaper.
I tend to agree with this, but add in all the various costs together, and it appears the market is starting to not bear it…
Damn shame because as Larry said, these are beautiful and elegant wines.
It’s always a sad thing when a wine you love and used to buy and drink crosses the point at which it makes sense for you to buy it.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that the winery did anything wrong by raising its prices - they are running a business and have every right to charge a price that they can get. [Though I do always chuckle at how differently WBers perceive the skyrocketing prices of the “good” producers from Rhone, Piedmont and Burgundy versus how derisively they perceive rising prices for the “bad” producers. Kosta Browne - cynical profiteer; Marcel Juge - wines are just so terrific they deserve skyrocketing prices.]
But you just have to form your own view, based on your resources, the available alternatives, and your comfort zone. And sometimes that means saying goodbye.
I do think with some of the more “elite” cali pinot producers there is a bit of a choice between focusing on your mailing list versus focusing on the wholesale trade. I am guessing the frustrating thing with your mailing list is customer turnover and fickle loyalty, whereas well developed trade accounts probably are more reliable (although a certain percentage of those go out of business each year). If you can develop a strong, loyal mailing list i think it makes sense (given the substantially higher margins) to prioritize them.
I see winery like Rivers Marie is a great example of a winery that makes it fairly easy for list members to keep on buying. Wineries like Littorai and Arnot Roberts seem to have decided that they’ll take mailing list customer, but not bend over for them, while developing strong trade accounts.
I’ve dropped everything except for Rivers Marie (although adore Littorai wines and will buy at a restaurant/retail/auction).
I agree that Littorai’s business model may be different from say Rivers-Marie or Rhys, but the bottle cost alone is not what I’m upset about. They keep squeezing their loyal customers by charging for holding wines and twice for shipping (even though wines are purchased during the same release) and open way too little wine for the pick up party. None of these practices stand out, but combined they just add up and leave me with a bad impression of a producer I (used to) love.
Agreed… they seem to put less consideration/effort into their list customers, as reflected by:
- cost to tour the winery
- shipping costs and not consolidating
- aggressive price increases
- charging to hold
etc.
Also agree this seems to have changed over time. I’ve been well hosted without charge several times in the past.
I was just observing my best guess is that their priority is trade customers. I think this is very short sited given how well regarded they are by consumers and the substantially higher margins selling direct, but I guess they have their reasons.
In support of the posts immediately above, as I think about our two Napa Valley / Sebastopol visits last year, out of maybe 15 wineries visited, Littorai was the second-most expensive tasting (around $50 per person, if I recall?), after Schramsberg which included a long and detailed tour and a sit-down tasting with six or so large pours. Littorai’s was an informal stand-up tasting (which I typically have zero issues with) with memorably small pours, in their tasting barn.
All of this is to state how difficult the decision is to not buy. It’s currently in my top five wine producers because the wine is so good, so consistent, and basically damn near singular. But I did not buy. Although, like the poster above, I will continue to buy elsewhere.
Although I love the wines, I did not purchase this time as well. The costs are getting too high and shipping is outrageous! Also, I have attended on-site tastings twice in 3 years bringing another couple each time, and actually had to pay $60 per person each time ($240 total). The compost pile is just not that exciting and the number of wines was too few and too new.
Ceritas, Rhys, and Rivers Marie will get more of my money. Heck, I may even buy a Ramey Ritchie again one of these days.
Interesting that you bring up Ramey. Better and cheaper Chards than Littorai IMO.
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Maybe we should hire Littorai’s staff to pour at Falltacular next year.
On my last visit to Napa/Sonoma they were the only winery not willing to refund tasting fees with a case purchase. I realize they said tasting fees were not refundable, but thought they’d bend a little if buying a case.