Vins Rare wine shop

[MChang]

I have no horse in this race but after reading the thread and re-reading the initial post, it certainly feels like the people piled onto the OP pretty hard for what was a very accurately written description of the situation (that is often not the case when people complain about vendors on boards).

My takeaways:

• The OP was upset more by the lack of communication more than anything else - which I can fully appreciate. We get it, stuff happens - just take the 30 seconds it takes to let me know what is going on and I will be fine. Ignore me and I will take that as an insult.
• Whether or not you or I would have been upset by this type of treatment over a $25 transaction is irrelevant - the OP felt it was worthy of posting and that should be sufficient.
• Bryan has engendered a great deal of loyalty from many customers over the years which means that he at least knows how to take care of customers.
• Bryan’s comments about the ‘little things’ and the fact that he highlighted that this, in wine terms, was a relatively small transaction signals to me that if you are spending big money with him you will probably be treated very well but otherwise, you will be viewed as a ‘little thing’ and who knows what will happen?
• I can assure you that any vendor who dismisses my transaction as a ‘little thing’ probably isn’t getting any more of my business.

As much as I try and stay on top of everything sometimes the little things fall through the cracks.

I think he means little thing like sending a return label for a wine that costs more than the one the customer ordered. I can see how that might not be construed as a priority.

[R_Scott_Hughes]

Would this be an issue if the retailer had not outted all the details? I’m at a loss about the defense here. What difference does the dollar amount make as to the issue at hand and how is it “Karening” to question it? How many people here would put up with random substitutions on any of their orders without answers from a retailer?

It’s like popular Burgundy sellers get the same deference as the wines. People will fall all over themselves to apologize for any subpar performance.

I am 100% with you - the aggressive defense is fascinating. Conflating his factual description of the situation with ‘Karening’ and belittling the size of the transaction (and pushing it down to $5, not the $25 purchase price) in order to trivialize the OP is pretty bizarre.

While I probably would not have taken the time to post a complaint about a $25 transaction, I am glad that the OP did as I have learned a lot.

[Sean_S_y_d_n_e_y]

Good to see that we’re established “several thousand dollars” as the benchmark for when it’s okay to be upset for being ignored. Jeez.

[M_Meer]

Haha, over the years of buying wine, I wish I’ve only lost $5 or gotten a substitute I didn’t ask for.

I agree on principle, but it’s on the lower end on the scale of wine problems for me. I’d probably be over it by the time I cracked the Dominode, lol, and moved on to a different retailer if I were that miffed.

[Max_S1]

Had you continued to pursue this issue privately, I am absolutely sure it would have be settled eventually to your satisfaction.

So how long does he have to wait and how many attempts does he have to make? I guess 3 weeks with multiple attempts for a $25 bottle isn’t it, so I’m curious what the threshold is. If I make less money, do I get to be more concerned about a cheaper bottle? If I’m older, do I get to be concerned more quickly? I don’t think his threshold for bringing up a retailer on this board is unreasonable, which is really what this thread has become about.

[Max_S1]

• Bryan’s comments about the ‘little things’ and the fact that he highlighted that this, in wine terms, was a relatively small transaction signals to me that if you are spending big money with him you will probably be treated very well but otherwise, you will be viewed as a ‘little thing’ and who knows what will happen?
• I can assure you that any vendor who dismisses my transaction as a ‘little thing’ probably isn’t getting any more of my business.

As much as I try and stay on top of everything sometimes the little things fall through the cracks.

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. I think he was referring to a swap of a $25 bottle as a little thing, and in the grand scheme of things it realistically is small on the scale of a wine shop that probably does hundreds of thousands in business a year. I would consider it small as someone who’s average bottle purchase is probably in the $20-25 neighborhood. What isn’t as little of a thing for me is the lack of communication and knowing the status of the transaction. I think we’re on the same side here, but as with everything on this thread, it’s all shades of grey ha!

[Craig_G]

Had you continued to pursue this issue privately, I am absolutely sure it would have be settled eventually to your satisfaction.

So how long does he have to wait and how many attempts does he have to make? I guess 3 weeks with multiple attempts for a $25 bottle isn’t it, so I’m curious what the threshold is. If I make less money, do I get to be more concerned about a cheaper bottle? If I’m older, do I get to be concerned more quickly? I don’t think his threshold for bringing up a retailer on this board is unreasonable, which is really what this thread has become about.

Those weren’t the only options. He didn’t have to start with “I will stop doing business with them.” I agree that retailers shouldn’t sub without confirmation and they need to keep up with communication, but the OP started with an unnecessary flame when he could have asked for help (“anyone else having trouble contacting …?”).

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Had you continued to pursue this issue privately, I am absolutely sure it would have be settled eventually to your satisfaction.

So how long does he have to wait and how many attempts does he have to make? I guess 3 weeks with multiple attempts for a $25 bottle isn’t it, so I’m curious what the threshold is. If I make less money, do I get to be more concerned about a cheaper bottle? If I’m older, do I get to be concerned more quickly? I don’t think his threshold for bringing up a retailer on this board is unreasonable, which is really what this thread has become about.

Assuming there’s a real question buried in your sarcasm, my personal opinion is that the threshold should be dishonesty. I think best practice is keep your issues private unless you see evidence of fraud or dishonesty that the community needs to know about, or if you are truly afraid a shop may have vanished without word. I’d bet every single retailer out there has dropped the ball or screwed up or dealt with something in a less than ideal fashion here and there, even the very best. That doesn’t make poor service or mistakes okay, but it does mean that issues can crop up anywhere and we on the receiving end can choose how we respond. Public shaming feels wrong to me. I don’t actually think it contributes to the well being of the community to hear about random snafus, mistakes, or service slips. Again, it’s clear many people, not just here on WB but in the world at large, have a totally opposite opinion. I understand their reasoning. I just don’t agree with it.

[Max_S1]

Those weren’t the only options. He didn’t have to start with “I will stop doing business with them.” I agree that retailers shouldn’t sub without confirmation and they need to keep up with communication, but the OP started with an unnecessary flame when he could have asked for help (“anyone else having trouble contacting …?”).

I don’t disagree with you at all in that regard, but I don’t think it makes his concerns any less valid. Frankly, there are a lot of things people could have done better in this thread, myself included…

[R_Scott_Hughes]

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. I think he was referring to a swap of a $25 bottle as a little thing, and in the grand scheme of things it realistically is small on the scale of a wine shop that probably does hundreds of thousands in business a year. I would consider it small as someone who’s average bottle purchase is probably in the $20-25 neighborhood. What isn’t as little of a thing for me is the lack of communication and knowing the status of the transaction. I think we’re on the same side here, but as with everything on this thread, it’s all shades of grey ha!

Fair enough - this could definitely be interpreted more than one way. Maybe because I thought the overall tone of his post was a bit negative and dismissive towards the customer, I was more inclined to read it that way. I may be the only one to read it that way.

[Jeff_Leve]

Just to be clear on the substitution. The customer ordered 2 single bottles of 2015 Pavelot Guettes and Dominode 375ml. I figured anyone that was a burgundy drinker would be happy to have received 2 bottles of Dominode (the more expensive bottle and top cuvee from the Domaine @ $29.99) instead of the $24.99 he paid for the Guettes. I’m sorry to have been a little slow in getting the return label to the customer.

As of this posting a label has been sent to the customer and upon receipt of the bottle will be happy to refund the $24.99.

Loads of my friends like you and buy from you, so I am sure you’re a good source. But there is no reason for anyone to be happy with a substitution without asking. It is not good business to do that. To add that it was a whopping $5 more doesn’t make it more enticing. Why not Email the customer in advance and ask their preference? Or if you were too busy to do that, why not automatically refund him and send him an Email?

[w.fu]

I don’t think anyone thinks you are in the wrong for asking for what you ordered. You certainly have that right. Just seems like bashing a retailer over $5 is a little petty.

Second time this was said. How is the retailer being “bashed” exactly here? Someone sought answers about a transaction that went unanswered. It took this thread to get answered after the OP was grilled over about what happened. Not to mentioned discounted by other posters. Retailer substituted wines without confirming with the client. Then ignored the clients attempts to get answers. Only answering him once he found out he was getting some exposure. Did I miss something?

I guess I have a higher threshold than $5 for publicly Karening a retailer.

Surprised you, along with many others are still caught up over the $5. The lack of communication and unapproved substitution seems to be the heart of the issue. Dollar value plays no role in this.

[MChang]

Second time this was said. How is the retailer being “bashed” exactly here? Someone sought answers about a transaction that went unanswered. It took this thread to get answered after the OP was grilled over about what happened. Not to mentioned discounted by other posters. Retailer substituted wines without confirming with the client. Then ignored the clients attempts to get answers. Only answering him once he found out he was getting some exposure. Did I miss something?

I guess I have a higher threshold than $5 for publicly Karening a retailer.

Surprised you, along with many others are still caught up over the $5. The lack of communication and unapproved substitution seems to be the heart of the issue. Dollar value plays no role in this.

It’s making a huge public scene over something insignificant. I.e. Karening.

[w.fu]

I guess I have a higher threshold than $5 for publicly Karening a retailer.

Surprised you, along with many others are still caught up over the $5. The lack of communication and unapproved substitution seems to be the heart of the issue. Dollar value plays no role in this.

It’s making a huge public scene over something insignificant. I.e. Karening.

insignificant to you, not to him. Your opinion of the matter doesn’t reflect how OP felt about the situation. How many times have you or anyone else spent time with customer service over an unsatisfactory product or resolution for a measly amount. I know myself among others on this board have had the same experience, after some point it’s about the resolution and not the dollar amount. Most the people here are suggesting he chalk it up to a loss and forget about it since it’s only $5. It’s completely missing the point of the post and his initial frustrations with the retailer.
Again, to what point would his concerns be valid? Is it a dollar threshold? Is it time spent, number of emails, weeks waiting? I don’t think anyone’s answered that question yet.

[MChang]

Surprised you, along with many others are still caught up over the $5. The lack of communication and unapproved substitution seems to be the heart of the issue. Dollar value plays no role in this.

It’s making a huge public scene over something insignificant. I.e. Karening.

insignificant to you, not to him. Your opinion of the matter doesn’t reflect how OP felt about the situation. How many times have you or anyone else spent time with customer service over an unsatisfactory product or resolution for a measly amount. I know myself among others on this board have had the same experience, after some point it’s about the resolution and not the dollar amount. Most the people here are suggesting he chalk it up to a loss and forget about it since it’s only $5. It’s completely missing the point of the post and his initial frustrations with the retailer.
Again, to what point would his concerns be valid? Is it a dollar threshold? Is it time spent, number of emails, weeks waiting? I don’t think anyone’s answered that question yet.

I don’t think anyone is saying the OP doesn’t have a right to be upset or complain, or that he’s technically in the right.

That said, making a public post opens the situation up for discussion and people also have every right to voice their opinion. It’s hard to sling mud without getting muddy.

[w.fu]

It’s making a huge public scene over something insignificant. I.e. Karening.

insignificant to you, not to him. Your opinion of the matter doesn’t reflect how OP felt about the situation. How many times have you or anyone else spent time with customer service over an unsatisfactory product or resolution for a measly amount. I know myself among others on this board have had the same experience, after some point it’s about the resolution and not the dollar amount. Most the people here are suggesting he chalk it up to a loss and forget about it since it’s only $5. It’s completely missing the point of the post and his initial frustrations with the retailer.
Again, to what point would his concerns be valid? Is it a dollar threshold? Is it time spent, number of emails, weeks waiting? I don’t think anyone’s answered that question yet.

I don’t think anyone is saying the OP doesn’t have a right to be upset or complain, or that he’s technically in the right.

That said, making a public post opens the situation up for discussion and people also have every right to voice their opinion. It’s hard to sling mud without getting muddy.

Isn’t everyone on page 1 essentially saying OP is wrong? Also, saying he’s making a public spectacle and being a “Karen” is minimizing his frustrations and indirectly telling him he’s also incorrect.

What feelings would it illicit if you complained about something and someone said stop being a Karen or a Chad? Pretty sure that would come off like I have no right to complain and suck it up.

[m_ristev]

if the op was writing about wine.com i bet the responses would be quite different.

[Jeff_Leve]

It is clear that folks are supporting Bryan and Vins Rare because they like him and the store. That’s valid. My guess is that if the store was not named, the OP would have almost unanimous support.

We can all buy from any store. At least for me, customer service, support, communication and satisfaction are why I continue buying from the same merchants again and again.

[Markus_S]

People that is making me out to be the bad guy, would you just take what a seller ships you without discussing it with you first if you ordered an item from amazon and the seller sent u something else? Even if that item is $5 more? Do I care that the item is more expensive? I am pretty sure I can pay extra 5 bucks if I wanted that item. Would you just accept the item from amazon and not contact the seller for the correct item? And how would you feel if the seller just ignores you for 3 weeks? What if you ordered a dish at a restaurant and they gave u something else thats $5 more and told you “just accept it because its $5 more and I thought you will be ok with it”? Wouldnt you feel extremely insulted like you are asking for charity? Is your opinion on these types of matter the only correct one? Are others not allowed to want what we actually ordered no matter the value? The fact of the matter is I just needed what I ordered and asked to return the wrong item. I didnt do anything wrong. I never demanded refund first. I never demanded instant reply from vinsrare. Why am I being set out to be the bad one? If you or your family ever tried to get what you purchased from any type of products and you are putting me down, shame on you.

I don’t think anyone thinks you are in the wrong for asking for what you ordered. You certainly have that right. Just seems like bashing a retailer over $5 is a little petty.

What is an acceptable $ value then?
I wasnt bashing him for $5. He didnt give me a lesser value wine. Theres no $5 in this equation. I was commenting about his lack of communication and ghosting me and giving me something I didnt ask for. If you must add a value in to this “petty behavior” then it would be $50 since I paid $25 (375ml).

Yong, I’m definitely NOT bashing you, but only saying that ordering wine from many places has been wonky, to say the least. I think every single place I’ve done business with there has been at least 1 issue with at some time or another. I’ve had to chase things down from the best of them, sometimes multiple calls and/or emails, I figure that’s compounded by vintages, out-of-stock that doesn’t show up on websites, incorrect websites, shipping problems, smashed bottles in warehouses, bottles either leaking from heat or frozen from cold, missing shipped bottles, companies defrauding customers, yes, I’ve probably seen and experienced it all. It’s what makes wine…“Special”. . So I put your problem in perspective. Yes, it’s a pita, but a minor one. Consider if you bought multiple bottles of this from Premier Cru for instance. Consider scale in this wonky business, because anything that can happen, will happen.

[John_Glas]

if the op was writing about wine.com i bet the responses would be quite different.

Just think if it was Total Wine!