Vinifera

Wine Pimps
1

Does anyone do business with them? How?! [suicide.gif]

2

NO!

3

What Roberto said.

4

Daniel, What did Demonic do this week?

5

Being ridiculously difficult to deal with, offering me wines at 10-20% over retail, not willing to make me any offers even when I said I’d be interested in 5-10 cases of EACH of the wines…

It’s like a sober girl throwing themselves at a drunk guy and getting turned down. Who can do business that way in this economy? I’m thinking about tracking down the number of corporate and going above this guy’s head.

6

“I’m thinking about tracking down the number of corporate and going above this guy’s head.”

That attitude starts at the top, with MRS Demonic…

7

Ahhhhhh. Do they only give decent prices to people they know? They told me $68/btl was the wholesale price on something selling for $55 in NJ. I just wanted a fair price, not even a deal. Just wanted to carry their wines and be fairly competitive. [shrug.gif]

8

“Do they only give decent prices to people they know?”

Bingo! Here in California in the early 90’s, they loaded up several distributors in a row (like within two calendar years) with containers full of hard to sell stuff in order to get their pitiful allocations of Giacosa, Gaja and Bologna. Then, Demonic’s foot soldiers sold to all the accounts that would want the expensive stuff directly, cutting out the distributors but leaving them holding huge inventories of stuff like Giovanni Dri and Maculan.

We tried to place an ad in the Wine Spectator once with “Disgruntled former Vinifera distributor? We’ll buy your inventory!” but they wouldn’t take it.

9

I used to buy alot from them in mid 90’s, liked the salesman and they had nice wines. I would make my order with the salesman for lets say 1995 Gaja, and what I would get next day would be 1994. Salsman would place correct order but Demonico would change it for lesser vintage and hoping I would not notice… He would change pricing at will, which by the way is Illigal, same day they got scores. I remeber buying a case of 1997 Flaccianello for something like 300++ one week, then WS gave it high score, next week he was selling it for 800++. That pissed me off and I never bought from him again.

10

Sounds like I should just forget about it and stop trying to give them money then… It’s a shame as they have such great producers. [cray.gif]

11

This is funny! I just talked to these guys about reping our wines. Maybe I’ll think again. I was surprized to see how high the wholesale prices are in thier book.

12

I’ve bought from them in No CA for 7 years and they have always been easy to deal with for us, decent with allocations and I have a good rep and no problems for me.

13

I’m pretty certain that Vinifera Imports, based in NY, and Vinifera Wine Marketing, the wine brokerage based in NoCal, are not one and the same.

14

Nate,
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t see where it said which it was other than the thread title of “Vinifera”

15

Probably the absolute worst. Haven’t done business with Nocerino in ten years. He’s basically stuck in a time warp or under a rock…or both.

16

I admit they broke the mold when they created Dominic - but I have to admit -

He was one of my mentors in this business - when he was still in Chicago (before moving to NY - early 1980s) I became good friends with him as he taught me so much about Italian wines - he used to deliver to me out of the back of his caddie -

I opened the Minnesota and Florida markets for him and helped open the California market for him - I worked independent of his company in the Minnesota & Florida markets - working as a second tier wholesaler that was NOT owned by Dominic - and later worked for Vinifera Imports out west -

Dominic is the hardest working guy this business has ever seen. And as much as you argue with his tactics (I was his “rebel” who he would fire and rehire at least once a month) - so I fought constantly with him over his biz tactics like making his customers purchase huge amounts just to get any discount at all (which I constantly violated) -

But Dominic took care of me, was very loyal to me after I had a very messy divorce and ended up with two kids I was sole provider of - as much of a pounder he was - he let me work my own schedules and was one of my saviors during a very trying time - he’s a good man -

And working with Dominic and Angelo Gaja was a trip like no other - watching them two in action was like following one of the original New York mafia families hitting up stores for protection - they were amazing together. I could write a book about how they used to fleece restauranteurs and retailers -

I used to have to book Wine dinners around the country for Gaja with one stipulation; no food. Maybe a little cheese and bread, but that’s it. “I didn’t come half way around the world to discuss what they all had for dinner.” So imagine the restauranteur’s reply who wants to showcase his food with Gaja’s wines?

The key to doing business with Dominic is still the same as it always was, you have to sell your soul to him. You must be incredibly loyal to all of his brands, and he will be loyal to you. Dominic wheels and deals like no one I’ve ever seen - but he talks in hundreds - that’s cases, not bottles.

AND frankly, is there a better sourcer of Italian wines in this country that Dominic? His discoveries over the years are legendary -

17

Thomas,

He was certainly a pioneer and that is indisputable. Impossible to do business with but certainly brought much to the table and today, he has become irrelevant unfortunately. Another one cut from the same mold of days gone by is Robert Chadderdon. We did so much business with him but unfortunately it was always a one way street. Plus, different prices on different days to different people, rules constantly changing and wine never ordered simply showing up at the door. Crazy stuff!

18

Unfortunate but true - I don’t know how anyone can do biz with Chadderdon, and how the hell does he still have Billecart Salmon? I bet he returns their phone calls -

19

Tom,

Bob’s relationships with suppliers are as peculiar as he is. When I started to do business with him I basically had to pass a full fledged test. A few phone calls, a face to face meeting. He wanted to know EVERYTHING about me, my family, my life history. Only after that he agreed to do business with me. Bob does not need a cent from the wine biz so he does business at his own terms and it’s a take it or leave it approach. It worked well for a while but when he shoves all kinds of crap down your throat, in every vintage, until you’re basically choking on it, that’s when it stops. I literally had to stop taking his phone calls to make him go away.

20

When I was a wine buyer, I had bad experiences with Vinifera, too. Within our local wine community, “Vinifera pricing” is common parlance for anything that’s overpriced!