Undiscovered West Coast Terroirs

[Kris_Patten]

Some great Syrah will come out of the hills behind Zillah in WA.

[Cris_Whetstone]

@John Oglesby

@Tegan Passalacqua

Borden ranch in Lodi. It has the most intersesting soils I have seen in California. Just add head-trained, dry- farmed Grenache, and Carignane

This actually touches on something that is more likely to happen. Replanting most areas to varietals that would shine best.

All too often you come across acres upon acres of Cab or Chard, and you’re standing in the middle of the vineyard and you get the epiphany for “Grenache”.

This is exactly what came to mind for me also. There are a lot of established regions where I would love to see the varieties matched to similar climates in Europe rather than focusing on varieties that are popular. I would also like to see more blends. In Paso for instance there is far too much Syrah and even things like Pinot and Cab. I would love to see Tempranillo, Carignane, more Grenache and Mourvedre, Italian varieties, etc on all that limestone. Syrah taking off in Bennett Valley and the Yorkville Highlands is exciting. Anderson Valley and north are sure to come into more focus as the climate warms.

[John_Morris]

@Tegan Passalacqua

Borden ranch in Lodi. It has the most intersesting soils I have seen in California. Just add head-trained, dry- farmed Grenache, and Carignane

What kind of soils?

[John_Morris]

@John Oglesby

@Tegan Passalacqua

Borden ranch in Lodi. It has the most intersesting soils I have seen in California. Just add head-trained, dry- farmed Grenache, and Carignane

This actually touches on something that is more likely to happen. Replanting most areas to varietals that would shine best.

All too often you come across acres upon acres of Cab or Chard, and you’re standing in the middle of the vineyard and you get the epiphany for “Grenache”.

I know Mick Unti of Unti VIneyards in Dry Creek Valley thinks that grenache hasn’t gotten a fair shake in California because historically it was concentrated in the Central Valley. He thinks it has a lot of potential in other climates and soils, and he makes a pretty decent version already.

[John_Morris]

What about the Sierra Foothills? I remember exploring them 20 years ago and thinking that there were spots that looked suitably poor for most other crops. Steve Edmunds has certainly done some good things up there, but I wasn’t crazy about what I tasted from other sources when I returned there five years ago – either from the slopes and higher elevations or from flatter, lower vineyards – and the area seems to have faded off the serious wine map. Does it have unrealized potential?

[Ian_Brand]

@Bob Wood

@Ian Brand

Other Bob -
I wouldn’t say McMinnville or Yamhill-Carlton represent an unappreciated region. They are high quality regions, but where is the work being done that is going to drive the future of Oregon winemaking? What places around you have you driven past and thought, ‘That be an incredible place for a vineyard’ even though there aren’t any planted in the immediate region? The proposition of the Van Duzer area is great. I’d like to spend some time checking it out.

Ian, the question was about “non-valley valley” and the Coast Range foothills as I recall, not whether McMinnville/Y-C are under-appreciated.

That said, there’s an entire slope north of Highway 26 stretching from just west of Portland all the way out to the Coast Range that faces essentially south. The eastern portion is highly developed but the western part is not and I drool every time I look at it.

Yeah. I know. Not really a distinction I want to try to make right now. Elk Cove, from what I remember of it, is definitely in the hills, for example. I was looking more for areas that are outside the known and discussed. The chorus out of Oregon tends to be ‘Willamette, Willamette, Willamette’ and I have to think that there’s a lot more up there worth exploring, including the Umpqua and the highway 26 corridor. Both could be very cool.

[Ian_Brand]

@Kevin Harvey

It’s important to remember that during CA and Oregon’s relatively short experience with Pinot (30-60 years), the emphasis was primarily on climate. I think today’s wines show that climate is important but not sufficient to produce great wine. Soil is a much more important factor for the highest possible quality, so my guess is that the next phase of CA discovery will be more soil oriented.

Meanwhile, there are completely unexplored soil types even in older AVAs like the Sc Mtns, Monterey County, the true Sonoma Coast or Mendocino, so there is still plenty opportunity for discovery in less remote areas.

Once again, stating more eloquently what I fumble with. That’s what I’m on about!

John-

I’ve seen some interesting stuff out of the Sierras in the 2000-2500 ft elevation range. There are some good shaley soils up there, hot days and cool nights. Not enough vineyards to really tell yet, or I haven’t made a full census of the region – I’m a little busy down here.

[Bob_Wood]

@Ian Brand

@Bob Wood

@Ian Brand

Other Bob -
I wouldn’t say McMinnville or Yamhill-Carlton represent an unappreciated region. They are high quality regions, but where is the work being done that is going to drive the future of Oregon winemaking? What places around you have you driven past and thought, ‘That be an incredible place for a vineyard’ even though there aren’t any planted in the immediate region? The proposition of the Van Duzer area is great. I’d like to spend some time checking it out.

Ian, the question was about “non-valley valley” and the Coast Range foothills as I recall, not whether McMinnville/Y-C are under-appreciated.

That said, there’s an entire slope north of Highway 26 stretching from just west of Portland all the way out to the Coast Range that faces essentially south. The eastern portion is highly developed but the western part is not and I drool every time I look at it.

Yeah. I know. Not really a distinction I want to try to make right now. Elk Cove, from what I remember of it, is definitely in the hills, for example. I was looking more for areas that are outside the known and discussed. The chorus out of Oregon tends to be ‘Willamette, Willamette, Willamette’ and I have to think that there’s a lot more up there worth exploring, including the Umpqua and the highway 26 corridor. Both could be very cool.

You’ll have to tap someone else’s data base on Umpqua, but the Highway 26 corridor is within the Willamette River drainage. If you get my drift.

[brigcampbell]

@Bob Wood

@Ian Brand

Other Bob -
I wouldn’t say McMinnville or Yamhill-Carlton represent an unappreciated region. They are high quality regions, but where is the work being done that is going to drive the future of Oregon winemaking? What places around you have you driven past and thought, ‘That be an incredible place for a vineyard’ even though there aren’t any planted in the immediate region? The proposition of the Van Duzer area is great. I’d like to spend some time checking it out.

Ian, the question was about “non-valley valley” and the Coast Range foothills as I recall, not whether McMinnville/Y-C are under-appreciated.

That said, there’s an entire slope north of Highway 26 stretching from just west of Portland all the way out to the Coast Range that faces essentially south. The eastern portion is highly developed but the western part is not and I drool every time I look at it.

Cornelius Pass

[Bob_Wood]

Close, no cigar.

[Andrew_Morris]

@Kevin Harvey

@Andrew Morris

There are a lot of small micro climates to work with in Northern Mendocino and Southern Humboldt counties. Although my experience is limited and focused on one area, it seems to me that the real “undiscovered” areas are not in AVA’s. Establishing an AVA is big paperwork burden. It seems that there needs to a be a critical mass of grape growers and vintners in an area before it can get done. At least that is how it seems here.

I think the entire coast between Anderson Valley and the Rogue Valley looks to have very high potential for Burgundian varietals. There are many shallow rocky soils and the climate is cool (though unforested land is limited). My guess is that the region is relatively underexploited due to market conditions (ie no marketable AVAs) and the logistical difficulties of farming in a region with little viticulture. It’s important to remember that during CA and Oregon’s relatively short experience with Pinot (30-60 years), the emphasis was primarily on climate. I think today’s wines show that climate is important but not sufficient to produce great wine. Soil is a much more important factor for the highest possible quality, so my guess is that the next phase of CA discovery will be more soil oriented.

Meanwhile, there are completely unexplored soil types even in older AVAs like the Sc Mtns, Monterey County, the true Sonoma Coast or Mendocino, so there is still plenty opportunity for discovery in less remote areas.

Thanks for your comments. As you point out, soil types are a key variable to be explored and tested both in well established and less established areas. The degree of variation in the expression of vineyards that are only a few miles apart is the most striking part from my POV.

[Tegan_Passalacqua]

@John Morris

@Tegan Passalacqua

Borden ranch in Lodi. It has the most intersesting soils I have seen in California. Just add head-trained, dry- farmed Grenache, and Carignane

What kind of soils?

The soils are alluvial, mixed with volcanics and clay. The parent material of the alluvium is a combination of granite and quartz. The area was glaciated at on time and the alluvium is a product of the ice melt.

[brigcampbell]

They are called moraines, deposits of glacial till.

Look mom, my college degree came in use. On a wine forum…

[Keith_Levenberg]

@John Morris

What about the Sierra Foothills? I remember exploring them 20 years ago and thinking that there were spots that looked suitably poor for most other crops. Steve Edmunds has certainly done some good things up there, but I wasn’t crazy about what I tasted from other sources when I returned there five years ago – either from the slopes and higher elevations or from flatter, lower vineyards – and the area seems to have faded off the serious wine map. Does it have unrealized potential?

I’d say the potential there is very much realized if you’ve tasted Renaissance’s and Clos Saron’s wines. I understand they’re in a very different part of the appellation from Steve Edmunds’s, though.

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

Renaissance is maybe 90-120 minutes drive from Amador/El Dorado border.

[J_a_y_C_a_i_n]

I’m really enjoying this thread, but can you guys give me the names of some wines I can try? I mean, you don’t expect a guy to actually use Google, do you?

[Dan_Rinke]

@Ian Brand

Bill – One word: Muscat. Hottest thing with RS these days.

Dan – interesting. Is it possible to grow in the corridor proper or are you talking about the vineyards at the terminus as it enters the Willamette Valley. What are the soils like in the area? I’m very interested in the prospects of growing grapes in the foothills of Oregon’s coastal mountains but haven’t spent the time to look at climate/topography to see if this is possible. Do you know of any vineyards outside the ‘valley’ of the willamette valley?

Ian

Ian,
I am talking about the area where the van Duzer corridor opens up to the valley. This is where the vineyards that I manage are located. We are extremely late harvesting and every year we are pushing to ripen Pinot Noir and later ripening Chardonnay. Farming on the edge. That is the climatic discussion, plant a variety that uses the entire growing season. I think you need to be farming on the climatic edge and have the soils to produce world class wines.

You asked about the area inside the corridor, I like the area on hwy 18 between Willamina and the H. B. Van Duzer Forrest. I think the soils would be great but the climate will be too cool for still wine, but for sparkling wine it would be perfect.

[John_Morris]

@Keith Levenberg

@John Morris

What about the Sierra Foothills? I remember exploring them 20 years ago and thinking that there were spots that looked suitably poor for most other crops. Steve Edmunds has certainly done some good things up there, but I wasn’t crazy about what I tasted from other sources when I returned there five years ago – either from the slopes and higher elevations or from flatter, lower vineyards – and the area seems to have faded off the serious wine map. Does it have unrealized potential?

I’d say the potential there is very much realized if you’ve tasted Renaissance’s and Clos Saron’s wines. I understand they’re in a very different part of the appellation from Steve Edmunds’s, though.

Thanks. I’ll have to check these out.

It’s funny: I’m sitting in San Francisco but it seems Clos Saron’s wines are more readily available in New York!

[Ian_Brand]

@Dan Rinke

Ian,
I am talking about the area where the van Duzer corridor opens up to the valley. This is where the vineyards that I manage are located. We are extremely late harvesting and every year we are pushing to ripen Pinot Noir and later ripening Chardonnay. Farming on the edge. That is the climatic discussion, plant a variety that uses the entire growing season. I think you need to be farming on the climatic edge and have the soils to produce world class wines.

You asked about the area inside the corridor, I like the area on hwy 18 between Willamina and the H. B. Van Duzer Forrest. I think the soils would be great but the climate will be too cool for still wine, but for sparkling wine it would be perfect.

Dan,
Are the soils you’re working on pretty consistent with the rest of the Willamette (Jory, Willakenzie) or is there variance based on which tributary drainage you’re in? How do they differ from the soils farther up the drainage? That’s a question for Bob regarding the Hwy 26 corridor as well. Also, with elevation in the Willamette area do you gain any heat during summer/fall days, or lighten the soils and speed ripening at all?
Ian

[Bob_Wood]

Ian, I believe - though I’m not certain - that much of the soil on the slopes in the northern reaches of the Hwy 26 corridor is Cornelius-Kinton with some Laurelwood, Saum and Jory thrown in. I further believe that Cornelius/Kinton is a subset of, or closely related to, Willakenzie in that it’s marine sedimentary in nature. It’s a big area with a lot of soil types and, I suspect, too close to Portland for vineyard land to pencil out.