Sorry if this is a stupid question but while we’re discussing the naming conventions, what is in the casks not listed in your post above with the list of Rieslings, AP 2, 10, 13-17, 19, etc.?
My pleasure, Brian.
Many producers have a showier front label, along with a legally required (back) label, which has the alcohol content, net contents, and so on. Their US importers then use this “back label” to add the health-warning statement and other required information.
The Webers just have a front label in the domestic market. This makes it much easier to label. There is no room on their back labels for additional details. They would have to increase the size of the label and have a different back label for every market, wine, and importer.
Beginning this year, the new EU wine-label requirements mean that each wine must have nutritional information. As the Webers don’t use a back label in Germany, they would have to put all of the information on the front label and prefer not to have a QR code. The TTB doesn’t seem to want either of these on the front label, though.
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The back label is typically for importer and gov’t required information. It’s nearly ubiquitous in the US, but almost unheard of in the EU or there’s just a very small importer strip in the back. I’ve started seeing back labels on UK sourced bottles after Brexit. All the Rieslings I purchased in the Mosel have no back label.
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AP 2 is the Weißburgunder, and AP 10 is the Spätburgunder. I’ll write more later on the other AP numbers.
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Julian Haart
Max Kilburg
Herman Ludes (some not all)
AJ Adam
Lukas Hammelmann
Klosterhof
Have back labels
Without going and looking id guess less than half of producers do - though some have labels covering most or more than half of the bottle.
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AP 13 has been used for various wines since the 2016 vintage. AP 14 was Ternes, and AP 15 was Herbert for a short while. Those other numbers, such as 17 and 19, have been used for different wines in the past.
It’s important to differentiate an AP number and a cask number. The large, bold number is the lot (cask) number (at Falkenstein). The Webers don’t actually number their casks, though. Gisela happens to have the number 26 on the head of the cask, but not all of these old secondhand casks have a number on them. When the Webers first made a wine from the parcel nicknamed Gisela, it was assigned the lot number 8, and they stuck with it ever since.
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When you say “AP 13” isn’t that shorthand for saying “Fuder 13” or, to use your terminology, “Lot 13” or “Cask 13”? The way I read your post, you use those three interchangeably. I think most people (all?) – when they say “AP #: xxd” — they are referring to the Fuder # xxd.
All I want is consistency in labelling from vintage to vintage. It sounds like Place Name and Fuder #/Cask #/Lot #/AP # have been completely (mostly?) consistent since 2019.
All of this does create quite the headache with Cellartracker entries, but that can all get sorted-out so long as labelling consistency is achieved and maintained. I know I have at least a couple Falkenstein CT entries that need to be fixed, now that I better understand how they go about their labelling …
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Yes, AP 13 is shorthand for the batch or lot number. A quasi-cask number marked in large bold type on the Hofgut Falkenstein label.
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O.K… That’s what I thought. Just wanted to make sure. So I don’t really understand why you said “It’s important to differentiate an AP number and a cask number.” I don’t think anyone in this thread had been conflating one for the other, unless you count the very common practice of saying a wine’s AP number is it’s cask number.
Why did you say, “It’s important to differentiate an AP number and a cask number.” ?
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As I mentioned before, AP 8 is an official batch number for Gisela, not a true cask number. The Webers have used this batch number to designate Gisela since the 2015 vintage. The same cask is used for this wine every year.
The words “cask” and “barrel” get thrown around a lot by growers and importers, but many of these wines never see any wood, much less a single cask. A “cask number” might be a numbered batch of wine fermented in a tank (or tanks).
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So just two Euchariusberg Kabinett’s in 2024 (Kugel Peter and Gisela)? Asking because I know in 2023 there were a total of four (Kugel Peter, Gisela, Ternes, and Arthuro). Just wondering.
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Yes, this was due to the severe frost damage, which severely affected the eastern half of the hillside of Euchariusberg, aka Großschock.
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Makes sense. Thanks for the info.
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You’re welcome, Bill.
As you can see, the list is streamlined, and the batch/cask numbers are the same.
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Yes, thank you, Lars. This is very helpful information.
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My pleasure, Ernest. Here’s a link to the list, which includes an updated profile.
Johannes and I collaborate on the tasting notes.
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Just to be clear, a place-name, or named vineyard, is a small section on the cadastral map. Auf dem Hölzchen and Ober Schäfershaus are official place-names in Krettnacher Altenberg. The Webers chose to register these named vineyards for use on their labels. The same goes for Im Kleinschock in Niedermenniger Sonnenberg. They did this to highlight these sections. In the case of Auf dem Hölzchen and Ober Schäfershaus, the soil has more diabase in this prime western flank, which was once named Silberberg and had a stone wall around it. Kleinschock, listed as “Schock” on Clotten’s 1868 Saar and Mosel tax map, is the small twin hill of Großschock, aka Euchariusberg. As for the nicknames, they are unofficial. Lorenz Manni is just a nickname for a specific parcel in Ober Schäfershaus. I hope this helps.
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Thanks, Lars. I think that would be cool information to have somewhere on the bottle/label, whether it be by way of words (like your posts here) or by way of picture (a small, zoomed-in map, perhaps). ← just for geekiness’s sake
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