The Lena Dunham comparison works on a few levels. She’s someone who has captured the minds and hearts of certain members of her generation, is provocative in a brilliant and occasionally loving way; has had a couple memorable flashes of genius, … and more than occasionally… is an appalling trainwreck seemingly destined for Mark B’s toilet.
A strong endorsement of natural wine for those of us who support anything that is capable of ruining bourgeois dinner parties.
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“Natural” is leftist for treif
I agree that too strict a respect for making wine in the “correct” way is a mistake, but what seems to happen is that the trendy category supersedes any standard of quality, like it tastes like crap but it must be good cause it’s a natural wine. I’ve seen this attitude in any number of different trends, peoples brains overlook reality. That doesn’t mean that a winemaking flaw can’t lead to great flavor, but in the end what you’re tasting ought to be the final standard, not whether or not it is part of a trendy category.
This. It’s interesting witnessing the two extremes in wine fairs and other events with natural wines. Quite often there’s a whole range of stuff, ranging from sublime to downright faulty (I don’t consider even heavily bretty wines faulty, although they aren’t particularly “pure” or “terroir-driven” wines either; however, heavily mousy wines are definitely a flaw).
In these events I find it entertaining to discuss with familiar faces. Very often the “classicists” often deride all the natural wines available, even the ones that were pure, vibrant and thoroughly wonderful - albeit sometimes somewhat different from what people have used to. The naturalist somms, on the other hand, seem to love all the wines available there, raving on some “wonderfully funky” wines that to me were undrinkably faulty.
Fortunately this kind of dichotomy seems to be going away; for the past few years I’ve seen people tasting these wines more open-mindedly but also with a more critical eye. Slowly these funkier and quirkier wines seem to be accepted into the mainstream, but the downright faulty wines are not. The two extremes seem to have gotten closer to each other, so that people actually taste the final standard - as you said - and not just either dismiss or embrace the wine only because of what stylistic choice it represents.
Who’s “us” dude? Can you elaborate on that? ![[tease.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/c/c5b32b76bebaa359b0452ae247b61189ffe5fa7e.gif "tease"){kind=small}
Of course, one of the ‘arguments’ made by supporters of natural wines is that by making it the way they do, they allow the ‘terroir’ to shine brighter.
Well . . .
Go ahead on Mr. Business man, you can’t dress like me.
I’ve run across a few vintners from both the natural and conventional sides of the wine spectrum who have claimed that brett is part of a vineyard’s terroir so the wine should express that. Just an excuse for poor sanitation / winemaking in my book.
But nearly all the natural winemakers I’ve talked with (in California, anyway) dislike brett just as much as most other vintners. In at least some cases, their sanitation regimen in the winery is more rigorous than many conventional winemakers since they rely less on SO2 to protect their wines. In any case, natural winemakers aren’t the only ones who make wines with little or no added sulfur - certainly everyone who does that is aware of the potential risks and rewards.
Great points, Ken.
Here is my question to all of those who make or like natural wines - when the wine evolves in a way that is ‘not complementary’ to what you envisioned it would, are you happy? Can you ‘stand behind’ that wine and say that that was how you ‘intended’ for the wine to evolve? Same goes for non-natural producers who bottle unfiltered with a touch of brett to start - when that wine ‘blooms’, is that what you ‘intended’?
And still waiting for replies about how many of these natural wines handle Day 2 in wine bars?
Cheers
Generally speaking with regards to allowing terroir “shine” brighter, is that what Boris meant by “polishing a turd”
I’ve definitely noticed the opposite re: natural wines not lasting for a few days. Especially when you get into the more esoteric skin-contact wines.
So if horse shit so agreeable, why not open a wine bar or dining establishment in a barn; could be a natural pathway to becoming a stable genius in some circles.
Quite a few of them, probably including some you’ve talked to, seem perfectly fine with MLF bacterial contamination, though, which I have a huge problem with and have seen in MANY “natural” wines, especially (but definitely not limited to) from the US.
I recall reading a bit of wine humor many years ago about two wine-lovers discussing a bottle of Burgundy. One says “eewww - this wine smells like ass.” The other one says “yeaaah! this wine smells like ass!” No matter how weird or off-putting some wines may be to some of us, there will be others who love them. Same holds true for different styles of beer (I don’t mind many sour beers but can’t stand milk stouts) and for many foods.
Sure, but that sort of contamination happens and gets worse in bottle, so those producers are providing a completely unstable product where some bottles might simply have a hint of something funky while others will be quite fizzy and literally reek of vomit.
Though they might dislike brett, they will bottle wines with a bit of RS, unfiltered and with no SO2…
Guess what will happen if that wine is not handled correctly?
Do you think most of them care what happens to their wines after they sell them?
Cheers.
These Post Modern wines are pretty much like other Post Modern areas like art, hospitality and food: Bonne: "…willfully kind of piss on a thousand years of history,”
People want to feel like they are unique, hip and progressive and not tools of the past. Iconoclasm is the new fashion.
That being said, even in a world of Yellow Tail and The Prisoner, I do like the fact that we have so many variations in the wine world. Just wish it wasn’t worn on one’s sleeve so often.
No question that happens, and almost certainly more with natural wines than conventional ones since natural winemakers are knowingly operating with little margin for error. That said, I suspect that most of us have had similar unintended consequence wines produced conventionally too.
“Mousiness” from a by-product of lactobacillus is one of the most unfortunate faults of some natural wine that I’ve very rarely encountered in conventional wines. I’ve encountered less of them recently but haven’t tasted a broad enough sampling of natural wines to know whether winemakers are getting a better handle on controlling this or not.
I’ve also had a few natural wines that went sideways (or were likely to do so) where the winemaker made lemonade out of lemons. For example, one had a number of wines with stuck fermentations in a particular vintage, so he bottled them as is under crown caps, and voilà! - he had Pét-Nat.
I didn’t get this part:
“Jon Bonné doesn’t really have a true understanding of natural wines. Plus, his wife works for a traditional import company.” (That’s Valerie Masten, a vice-president at Skurnik Wines.”
Doesn’t Jon Bonne live in SF, the town whose paper he writes for? And isn’t Skurnik based in NYC? So…where does the couple live?