Top 5 Producers You Don’t Buy Anymore, and Why

[David_Bu3ker]

With you on Zilliken, but there’s no such thing as too much Riesling.

[MChang]

@Yule_Kim

@MChang

@Yule_Kim

@MChang

@RyanC

Why no more d’Angerville, out of curiosity?

I’ve found recent angerville to be underwhelming in the extreme.

Just to clarify, the surname is spelled d’Angerville. Here’s a bio from Guillaume d’Angerville.

Guillaume d’Angerville

That’s because it’s a title marquis d’angerville, or marquis of angerville, similar to d’Yquem. The d’ is typically not used when referring to the surname because you’d be saying of angerville. That’s why it’s referred to as Chateau d’Yquem or just Yquem.

Just to clarify, the link to the bio is to Guillaume d’Angerville, who currently owns the Marquis d’Angerville winery. Guillaume d’Angerville also happens to be an investment banker for Weinberg Capital.

He spells his last name “d’Angerville” and not “Angerville”

That’s because when the full name is used, it still is referred to as d’Angerville. I believe when the last name is used it still is referred to as Angerville, at least that’s what I’ve been told. Bill Nanson refers to it as such here.

Angerville – 2013

[Andrew_K]

Boillot - premox
Leflaive - latest price increases this year on both sides of the pond are beyond crazy ($3k for Chevy? I’d rather buy Lafon Monty 100/100)
Henri Magnien - haven’t enjoyed the wine style enough
Bouchard Burg - price has gotten so high, the value is no longer there with the quality

[larry_schaffer]

@lleichtman

I’ve pretty much stopped buying from Paso Robles or south in California. Still will buy from Sonoma though and only limited purchases from Napa. No specific producers though.

Curious as to why? Lots of great stuff down here in SBC - and very different than Paso . . .

Cheers

[jprusack]

Starting in what vintage? I haven’t tasted any past 2012…which is a vintage I love from the domaine.

[MChang]

18+

[J_Patrick_Lynch]

Just to bring down the average bottle cost here a bit:
de Negoce and never migrated to Cam X.

The novelty wore off and I realize I prefer a known quantity. Plus I have a whole lot of it.

[brigcampbell]

@LaurenB

Seems like people’s tastes usually change from bigger, more extracted wines to lighter, more elegant ones?

You’ll end up in the Champagne thread, everyone always does.

Which Champagne are you drinking?

Seems like this might be a good thread for the bubbleheads here. I’ll start it with three 2004 Jacquesson Champ Cain - love this, deep Chardonnay flavors, tons of structure and low dosage. Very young still, lots of lemon minerality and fresh apple. 2001 Vilmart Couer de Cuvée - From a terrible vintage. Not sure how Laurent managed to make this beauty, a testament to quality commitment. This is much rounder than the Jacquesson, more base notes on the fruit and less structure, no real oxidati…

[brodie_thomson]

From my “top 10 producers in your cellar” list. I stopped buying these quite a while ago

Rousseau
Mugnier
Hudelot Noellat
Dujac
Chave
Giacosa

Same answer for all of them: I am too old, I have more than enough for my lifetime (if I live to 120 that is).

brodie

[Pat_Martin]

Too 5:
-Magdelaine: last vintage was 2011

-Ridge: palate shift and style shift at the winery. Love the old stuff still, especially the cabs, but prices are silly to backfill.

-Off-dry German Riesling: palate shift. Used to buy tons of these, still have more than I’ll drink.

-Chateauneuf: palate shift and massive style shift across the appellation (except Pegau probably). Too scarred by the 07s to ever venture back.

-St Emilion: systematic style shift to Parkerized crap and the steady attrition of the few, now former stalwarts of tradition like Canon and Figeac.

[Pat_Martin]

Oh no, what year did the change at Zilliken start?

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

You are safe!

[JamesGarner]

I also dropped Leflaive (greedy pricing especially 23’s) and Boillot (premox issues)

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

Per the Loosen Bros website she took over in 2016.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Ridge - Tired of American oak

Rougeard - Ownership change and price

Juge - Died

Figeac - The scourge of Bouard

BAMA - Iconoclastic owner-winemaker died, vineyards scattered to the winds

Sociando - Iconoclastic owner-winemaker died and at 59 I should not be being new releases anyway

Vatan - Not yet, did buy 2022, but now only releasing in mags and price is high and now double in mags. Prolly stopping at this vintage.

[AlecS]

@Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r

Zilliken - Underwhelmed by the wines since Hanno handed things over to his daughter. I also have too much riesling.
J.J. Prum - Price. Might go back for special or milestone vintages.
Ridge - Prefer Bedrock’s style to scratch my zin/zin blend itch.
Cedric Bouchard - Price.
Vieux Telegraphe/Beaucastel - Palate shift away from southern Rhone.

Beat me to it on Prum, not enough of a difference with other available producers to justify their BIG hikes in the past few years, and also I’ve found some flabby wines from them on occasion had me looking elsehwere. I also saw someone mention Krug, with the prices sitting comfortably around 240 (up to 280+) for current GC, I’m curious if people have the same feeling as they do with a producer like Bouchard? LVMH seems to know how to push price across a variety of products, was wondering where a tipping point might be for people.

Not as much BDX here as i thought there would be in people’s lists, but I think maybe current bdx had been dropped by people a couple years back? I will probably buy Cedric Bouchard until access makes it too much of an issue, because I think the wines are relatively singular in style, and the amount I currently have requires me to be pretty careful with consumption.

One other thought that occurs to me is this list for me is difficult to construct without regard to purchase method. There are producers currently that I would never buy retail, due to their prices being so much higher than in the auction market. Maybe that spread will tighten, but with the retail prices continuing to escalate in premium catagories, the auction market would have to move very significantly to keep up.

[Robert_Dentice]

@AlecS

…Prum, not enough of a difference with other available producers to justify their BIG hikes in the past few years

I have had many Prum back to the 20s and their aging profile is second to none in the Mosel. This alone is worth the small premium.

[AlecS]

Good point. Maybe I should clarify, Prum likely makes up my largest current held riesling producer, so I feel i have enough to hold for quite some time, and can buy other producers, as I am rolling back purchasing on Riesling a bit.

[Troy_Morris]

@JohnMag

5. Schrader — part palate shift, part price, part the sale to the corporate gave me an excuse to stop.

Exactly this for me as well.

Larkmead is another one. I was in their club for several years back in the early-mid 2000’s, but stopped buying about ten or twelve years ago. My palate had started to move from Napa cab and pricing started to escalate, so it was inevitable that I would buy less Napa cab, and this was an easy drop. While they didn’t exactly sell out to big corporate, it seems like they embraced the model.

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

I liked Cedric Bouchard more when Val Vilaine was $60/bottle and La Boloree was just under $150.